Yet another redmage balance idea

[Kessya]

I don't see anyone saying that blackmage is the "infinite mana shift class" either, even though that is kind of the only thing they have going for them aside their numbers.

I've also heard people throw the argument around that counting on many rezzes during progression is actually counterproductive, because you don't get to train your rotation for the case you actually WANT - people surviving (hence why I stated "perceived" support in the OP).

Why would you never see another verraise if it was behind 50 white mana, exactly? You can get that without even causing a mana imbalance, if you wanted. And my other proposed changes would even let you churn out a verraise every 10 seconds max on top of manafiction at the cost of much of your dps. But if you have that much to raise, I doubt having the usual dps would change the outcome of the encounter anyway.

[Matthew_Fox]

I don't see anyone saying that blackmage is the "infinite mana shift class" either, even though that is kind of the only thing they have going for them aside their numbers.

Maybe that's because Manashift is on a 2minute cooldown?

[Kessya]

What is blackmage's identity then? "Dealing damage" in the damage dealer roll?

Everyone seems to be just fine with redmage having nothing to do with "dealing damage" comparatively to the other classes, while being a DAMAGE DEALER because it's "identity" is standing there and raising the screw-ups.

The redmage fantasy is "being able to do everything a little bit". Being the best raiser goes against that.

[Matthew_Fox]

What is blackmage's identity then? "Dealing damage" in the damage dealer roll?

Everyone seems to be just fine with redmage having nothing to do with "dealing damage" comparatively to the other classes, while being a DAMAGE DEALER because it's "identity" is standing there and raising the screw-ups.

The redmage fantasy is "being able to do everything a little bit". Being the best raiser goes against that.

Why do you need RDM so badly to have a damage identity?
Black Mages obviously is big explosions.
Ninja is utility too, but in terms of aggro management and Trick attack.
Dragoon is Piercing Bot.

[Kessya]

I could ask you the same thing - why do you insist on redmage being behind everyone else when their only real utility is applicable solely in emergencies that should not happen in the first place?

Also the concept of a "damage dealer" having a "damage" identity is ludicrous.

Literally EVERY damage dealer's identity should be "dealing damage" either directly or through utility.

[Matthew_Fox]

I could ask you the same thing - why do you insist on redmage being behind everyone else when their only real utility is applicable solely in emergencies that should not happen in the first place?

Also the concept of a "damage dealer" having a "damage" identity is ludicrous.

Literally EVERY damage dealer's identity should be "dealing damage" either directly or through utility.

Of Course Redmage does damage... So does Bard or Ninja. Yet they're known for their utility. Red Mage is a perfect Job for progression. I'll take one over BLM/BRD/MCH any day of the week. I really don't see the issue here.

[Kessya]

The issues are that

#1. what happens outside of progression.
#2. Being the best at raising goes against the redmage fantasy, and I do not believe it should be as simple and easy as it is to just churn out raises until you're out of mp.
#3. Many spells and abilities being isolated from the job's main mechanic.

[KuuroYuuki]

I don't see anyone saying that blackmage is the "infinite mana shift class" either, even though that is kind of the only thing they have going for them aside their numbers.

I've also heard people throw the argument around that counting on many rezzes during progression is actually counterproductive, because you don't get to train your rotation for the case you actually WANT - people surviving (hence why I stated "perceived" support in the OP).

Why would you never see another verraise if it was behind 50 white mana, exactly? You can get that without even causing a mana imbalance, if you wanted. And my other proposed changes would even let you churn out a verraise every 10 seconds max on top of manafiction at the cost of much of your dps. But if you have that much to raise, I doubt having the usual dps would change the outcome of the encounter anyway.

using mana without doing the combo already waste, why you use it for verraise that will give you 0 dps?

when you have 70 black mana and 50 white mana then you will get imbalance for using verraise (black mana =70 and white mana=0)