Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Raou]

I'm still wondering what mental gymnastics y'all were doing to get RACE WAR out of the OP, cuz that's some major asspulling going on there.

[Nandina]

This actually complicates things for you, not clarifies. Because based on the things you stated in your opener, as well as how you phrased them, it comes across as accusatory and with intent to inflame SE. So if your question was directed at SE, why would you phrase it and engage it the way you did? This actually supports my position: Construing your opposition as bigoted or racist isnt helpful in persuading them. If your question is directed at SE, creating a title named "Character-Creation-Has-A-Race-Problem" and then writing things like "I bring this up, because there are many black and brown people who play this game, yet the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white. Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game" is going to be seen by even the most moderate of Devs as inflammatory and divisive. Was this your intent?

Let me rephrase this: If you had a problem with a super market chain and the food they provide, do you go to their management and say "Hey, I noticed you guys dont carry this but I think this would be greatly appreciated." or do you say "Hey! This supermarket has a race problem. They dont have food for my black and brown friends, and theyre paying customers too!"

One brings it up about what owuld make the market better as a helpful suggestion, the other makes it a racial issue and implies bigotry and discrimination. Surely you dont think the latter is the ideal approach?

My intent was to let SE know that there are black and brown players who pay a sub, too, and we want A, B, C, and D. I feel the Hyur race has a problem because they're a human equivalent, but yet weren't diverse enough. And in previous pages we've already acknowledged that people have a problem with the way I phrased my words. In the previous pages I also clarified further and gave examples. At that point everything revolving around how I said it, and not the main topic, was BS. I'm not responsible for anyone's emotions. I'm responsible for my emotions; just as you're responsible for yours. If there was a misunderstanding of the intent, all they had to do is exactly what you did, and ask me, lol. There's no fuss. No argument. Nothing. Does this clarify things further or is there still a misunderstanding?

[Nandina]

And there I thought this thread wasn't about racism or discrimination yet now we have you openly accusing nearly every dissenting opinion of only having said opinion because discrimination. You really are a Tumblr meme.

I'll defer to my preceding post several pages back.



One of those quotes promotes discussion on actual game features. The other prompted a race war—one you've only proven to have wanted in the first place, otherwise you wouldn't be now accusing people of bigotry.

I asked for the features and people said "this is a fantasy game", "the game is diverse enough", "the game doesn't have to reflect real life". Therefor they didn't want the features. It's not that complicated to grasp. Then you have those saying they don't have a problem with the features, but then also use those same phrases, which is a contradiction.

[Nandina]

I'm still wondering what mental gymnastics y'all were doing to get RACE WAR out of the OP, cuz that's some major asspulling going on there.

Chile. . . I can't with some of these people here. Notice it's the same couple of people. I just wanna talk about more lips, noses, and hairstyles, and fixing that upper part of the skin color box. No one still said anything about the videos I posted demonstrating what I meant.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I asked for the features and people said "this is a fantasy game", "the game is diverse enough", "the game doesn't have to reflect real life". Therefor they didn't want the features. It's not that complicated to grasp. Then you have those saying they don't have a problem with the features, but then also use those same phrases, which is a contradiction.

No. You baked it into a racial issue. You didn't simply ask for fuller lips or bigger noses, you outright claimed SE only favours a white demographic and were indirectly racist. Your very title claims the game as a "race problem" not a "character creation problem." You set the tone, and have repeatedly doubled down despite a certain white-knight running to your defense. You keep digging that hole though. Eventually, you may see China.

Chile. . . I can't with some of these people here. Notice it's the same couple of people. I just wanna talk about more lips, noses, and hairstyles, and fixing that upper part of the skin color box. No one still said anything about the videos I posted demonstrating what I meant.

How about making a thread highlighting just those features next time and leave out the race baiting? Notice how no other thread has ever seen such a negative response despite asking for similar things? Yours is hardly the first asking for different hairstyles—some more commonly associated with other ethnicities. Only yours insisted the CC has a "race problem."

Your words. Not mine.

[Emstidor]

My intent was to let SE know that there are black and brown players who pay a sub, too, and we want A, B, C, and D.

You don't speak for me or any other person of color except yourself.

[Sigma-Astra]

I think what Emistidor is getting at is that you're not the spokeswoman for all or just a few black and brown players, and that you really shouldn't be setting yourself up on this platform like you are, it'll come across as you assuming or speaking for other people that can probably, quite frankly, speak up very well for themselves, and some already have.

That's just my take on it.

[Nandina]

I think what Emistidor is getting at is that you're not the spokeswoman for all or just a few black and brown players, and that you really shouldn't be setting yourself up on this platform like you are, it'll come across as you assuming or speaking for other people that can probably, quite frankly, speak up very well for themselves, and some already have.

That's just my take on it.

I see what's being said, but I'm hardly the first person to speak on behalf of people. I'm not equating the issue, but just using an example, Martin Luther King spoke up for others. Nelson Mandela spoke up for others, etc. We have a whole Me Too movement going on where people are speaking up for people. We had gay marriage where people spoke up for people. While character creation in a video game is no where near as drastic or severe as those real life issues (and is very trite in comparison), I've never known it to be a problem to speak up for others. I acknowledge that there are black people who never wanted to be integrated, there are gay people who didn't want gay marriage or believed in it, there are women who can't stand the Me Too movement, but it doesn't change the fact that there were others who did and that their opponents still benefit from it. I can't expect to get these things if I don't call it out or speak up on it. I'm sure if we did get the other nose, lips, hair options; that there would be people who disagree with the premise now who may utilize them in the future. But if not, they still have the option to. Does that make sense?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The problem is more lip, nose and hair options isnt a racial issue, its a character creation issue. Thats where the problem is.

No one has said more lip, nose, and hair options is bad, people have said using "race issues" to request new options is bad.

[Nandina]

The problem is more lip, nose and hair options isnt a racial issue, its a character creation issue. Thats where the problem is.

No one has said more lip, nose, and hair options is bad, people have said using "race issues" to request new options is bad.

I know it's a character creation issue hence the title. I wanted to make a black girl but was extremely limited in my options to do so because of the way the character creator was set up on the Hyur. I don't know if you saw the videos I posted where you pretty much are just delegated to one hairstyle and the same nose and face combo.

At this point we can really just dead the thread, cause clearly everyone is perceiving the issue differently and we're getting nowhere.