Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[odintius]

Oh it's who the most oppressed fantasy race mmo award time of the year. Well I'm elven so naturally were the most oppressed race in most games anyways so now give me more beards choices >.>

[MoroMurasaki]

Doesn't really seem like much of a reach considering the newest argument boils down to "PoC aren't lore-friendly".

We don't decide what is canonical, the devs do. There is a difference between saying "I would like any large scale changes to character creation to fit within established lore" and "keep black people out of this video game" but you seem to be conflating the two.

If the area to the south of the Sagolii prooves to be an African-styled location then cool, toss it in the game. If not then no I don't think they should change estaished lore for some offended, entitled children.

Ironically the same people arguing that they want this are the ones likely keeping it from happening since they would be whining about cultural appropriation if SE did implement such changes.

[bustamanteverde]

The thread that will not die! As a Latino I generally make my Heroes: males, either a ginger because sexy reasons or Latino looking like myself. My main is tall, dark, and handsome hehe. Most Devs give a cornucopia of options but one has to realize the entire world does not revolve around us so we have to make do with what is presented. SE is a Japanese based company so I realize their views on diversity are quite different than the melting pot countries like USA, England, and etc...

Saying it is a "race" problem is asking for a flame war though.

[FeliAiko]

Ironically the same people arguing that they want this are the ones likely keeping it from happening since they would be whining about cultural appropriation if SE did implement such changes.

Good job in keeping this spicy "war" going with baseless assertions like the above.

[Nandina]

Don't sit here and try to portray the OP as the victim - she dug herself in that hole and seemingly moved on to different pastures when it was clear she wasn't going to be able to bring herself out of this hole - something that you haven't figured out as of yet.

KaivaC, darling. . . I have something called a life. I haven't dug myself into any hole, I still 100% stand by everything I've stated, and will continue to. However I'm also not going to argue the same points repeatedly.

With that being said, the thread was actually getting somewhere finally until things for whatever reason took a shift again. But I can't help but find it funny that many of you are saying that no one has a problem with the suggestions that could be added to the character customization, but when people talk about the suggestions, you go on to say why those suggestions can't be implemented because "this is a fantasy game" or "there are no real life equivalents to Africa." Seems to me people are against the idea. I'm going to need for you all to remain consistent. Can you all just say you don't want the black features in the game and just call it a day? It's really not that hard. Stick by what you say and mean it. All this deflection is unnecessary.

I already posted four videos referencing what I'm referring to as I was told that the burden of proof was on me, yet very few people actually mentioned those videos.

[Melichoir]

Can you all just say you don't want the black features in the game and just call it a day? It's really not that hard. Stick by what you say and mean it. All this deflection is unnecessary.

Willfully construing your oppositions positions as bigoted or racist does not garner favor among the very people you are trying to persuade.

And INB4 "Oh but I dont care if I persuade them!"

Then all youre attempting to do is preach to the choir if your whole point is to have a discussion and expect everyone to agree with you. Im assuming you didnt make that thread for the purpose of hearing your own voice and everyone applauding you, but rather to express your view and either demonstrate or convince others of your view. You know, what typical forum style conversations are built upon.

So yeah, resorting to proclaiming people dont want 'x' while implying racism and bigotry isnt serving your point, and comes across more as "Imma throw up my arms and just call you all names cause Im tired of the discussion."

[Nandina]

Willfully construing your oppositions positions as bigoted or racist does not garner favor among the very people you are trying to persuade.

And INB4 "Oh but I dont care if I persuade them!"

Then all youre attempting to do is preach to the choir if your whole point is to have a discussion and expect everyone to agree with you. Im assuming you didnt make that thread for the purpose of hearing your own voice and everyone applauding you, but rather to express your view and either demonstrate or convince others of your view. You know, what typical forum style conversations are built upon.

So yeah, resorting to proclaiming people dont want 'x' while implying racism and bigotry isnt serving your point, and comes across more as "Imma throw up my arms and just call you all names cause Im tired of the discussion."

The question was really asked to SE, tbh. I don't care whether people agree or not, there have been people who disagreed and we're cool. I've had very productive dialogues with those people, but those people were consistent in their argument. They didn't accuse me of a stupid "race war", being divisive, they didn't argue semantics, or any of that other BS, which is why my responses to them are markedly nicer. Notice it's really only the same group of people doing that.

[Melichoir]

The question was really asked to SE, tbh. I don't care whether people agree or not, there have been people who disagreed and we're cool. I've had very productive dialogues with those people, but those people were consistent in their argument. They didn't accuse me of a stupid "race war", being divisive, they didn't argue semantics, or any of that other BS, which is why my responses to them are markedly nicer. Notice it's really only the same group of people doing that.

This actually complicates things for you, not clarifies. Because based on the things you stated in your opener, as well as how you phrased them, it comes across as accusatory and with intent to inflame SE. So if your question was directed at SE, why would you phrase it and engage it the way you did? This actually supports my position: Construing your opposition as bigoted or racist isnt helpful in persuading them. If your question is directed at SE, creating a title named "Character-Creation-Has-A-Race-Problem" and then writing things like "I bring this up, because there are many black and brown people who play this game, yet the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white. Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game" is going to be seen by even the most moderate of Devs as inflammatory and divisive. Was this your intent?

Let me rephrase this: If you had a problem with a super market chain and the food they provide, do you go to their management and say "Hey, I noticed you guys dont carry this but I think this would be greatly appreciated." or do you say "Hey! This supermarket has a race problem. They dont have food for my black and brown friends, and theyre paying customers too!"

One brings it up about what owuld make the market better as a helpful suggestion, the other makes it a racial issue and implies bigotry and discrimination. Surely you dont think the latter is the ideal approach?

[MoroMurasaki]

Can you all just say you don't want the black features in the game and just call it a day? It's really not that hard. Stick by what you say and mean it. All this deflection is unnecessary.

We don't decide what is canonical, the devs do. There is a difference between saying "I would like any large scale changes to character creation to fit within established lore" and "keep black people out of this video game" but you seem to be conflating the two.

At least I can respond to all of the SJW talking points easier now - copy and paste for the win!

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Can you all just say you don't want the black features in the game and just call it a day? It's really not that hard. Stick by what you say and mean it. All this deflection is unnecessary.

And there I thought this thread wasn't about racism or discrimination yet now we have you openly accusing nearly every dissenting opinion of only having said opinion because discrimination. You really are a Tumblr meme.

I'll defer to my preceding post several pages back.

"the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white."
"the character creator severely lacks in this game. Could we see improvements—perhaps fuller lips or larger noses? They really lack a variety in the presets."

I wonder how the conversation would have went had the second option been the OP's initial post~

One of those quotes promotes discussion on actual game features. The other prompted a race war—one you've only proven to have wanted in the first place, otherwise you wouldn't be now accusing people of bigotry.