Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[KaivaC]

It's whatever at this point to me Zsolen. This place has become nothing but a place to throw flaming rocks at the OP. It's almost dang near bullying. And it's sad.

And you are, what, the knight-in-shining-armor, come to defend against the flames standing against her? It's been pointed out multiple times, OP is the one that both started this fire and threw a mountain's worth of gasoline on it before there were even a dozen responses on this thread. And even when it was pointed out that the heart of the issue is the character creator and not representation, that was constantly being questioned by you and her. Don't sit here and try to portray the OP as the victim - she dug herself in that hole and seemingly moved on to different pastures when it was clear she wasn't going to be able to bring herself out of this hole - something that you haven't figured out as of yet.

To summarize: nobody wants to discuss the subject, because in this thread, there's really nothing to healthily discuss in the first place aside from a very lacking character creator. Nobody cares when someone says that a particular race is under-represented, because that's not true and no amount of grandstanding will change that fact. That's just the truth. The character creator is just...weak.

[Magic-Mal]

To summarize: nobody wants to discuss the subject, because in this thread, there's really nothing to healthily discuss in the first place aside from a very lacking character creator. Nobody cares when someone says that a particular race is under-represented, because that's not true and no amount of grandstanding will change that fact. That's just the truth. The character creator is just...weak.

You're back now too? Gang's all here. Defending her? Lol. I'm defending the entire thread itself because this is something I care about. Something I can personally relate to with games conveniently lacking in the same exact things. It doesn't matter if I'll use the options or not.

And you're wrong. We had a perfectly civil discussion before we went back into the mess. Read Iscah's posts back there as an example of what y'all could be doing instead of this.

[KaivaC]

You're back now too? Gang's all here. Defending her? Lol. I'm defending the entire thread itself because this is something I care about. Something I can personally relate to with games conveniently lacking in the same exact things. It doesn't matter if I'll use the options or not.

And your wrong. We had a perfectly civil discussion before we went back into the mess. Read Iscah's posts back there as an example of what y'all could be doing instead of this.

Yes, I'm aware of the direction this thread has took - just because I'm not actively posting doesn't mean I'm not reading. Nor do I follow any one person on these forums. I'll comment when I have something to say, doesn't matter who is or isn't around.

That's fine if you and others care about the subject. It doesn't mean that you folks are necessarily right, either. There's been a near unanimous agreement about requesting additional features - it's the original idea behind it, that minorities are somehow underrepresented, whether intentionally or not, that leaves a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.

[Magic-Mal]

Yes, I'm aware of the direction this thread has took - just because I'm not actively posting doesn't mean I'm not reading. Nor do I follow any one person on these forums. I'll comment when I have something to say, doesn't matter who is or isn't around.

That's fine if you and others care about the subject. It doesn't mean that you folks are necessarily right, either. There's been a near unanimous agreement about requesting additional features - it's the original idea behind it, that minorities are somehow underrepresented, whether intentionally or not, that leaves a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Yeah except that wasn't what we were even talking about. You say you were reading so you should know. We were having a civil discussion. It's the people who can't walk away who added 15 pages to this.

[alimdia]

Yeah except that wasn't what we were even talking about. You say you were reading so you should know. We were having a civil discussion. It's the people who can't walk away who added 15 pages to this.

Gonna be honest here, you seem to be enjoying the race war argument as much as the rest. If you were truly interested in offering the proper feedback to the devs you would've made your own thread without the race war, but you keep making excuses about duplicate threads and whatnot even though you know this thread isn't gonna go back on track nor will likely be passed on to the devs due to all the bickering, you also keep replying to people which perpetuates the argument.

[Nandina]

Don't sit here and try to portray the OP as the victim - she dug herself in that hole and seemingly moved on to different pastures when it was clear she wasn't going to be able to bring herself out of this hole - something that you haven't figured out as of yet.

KaivaC, darling. . . I have something called a life. I haven't dug myself into any hole, I still 100% stand by everything I've stated, and will continue to. However I'm also not going to argue the same points repeatedly.

With that being said, the thread was actually getting somewhere finally until things for whatever reason took a shift again. But I can't help but find it funny that many of you are saying that no one has a problem with the suggestions that could be added to the character customization, but when people talk about the suggestions, you go on to say why those suggestions can't be implemented because "this is a fantasy game" or "there are no real life equivalents to Africa." Seems to me people are against the idea. I'm going to need for you all to remain consistent. Can you all just say you don't want the black features in the game and just call it a day? It's really not that hard. Stick by what you say and mean it. All this deflection is unnecessary.

I already posted four videos referencing what I'm referring to as I was told that the burden of proof was on me, yet very few people actually mentioned those videos.

[Melichoir]

Can you all just say you don't want the black features in the game and just call it a day? It's really not that hard. Stick by what you say and mean it. All this deflection is unnecessary.

Willfully construing your oppositions positions as bigoted or racist does not garner favor among the very people you are trying to persuade.

And INB4 "Oh but I dont care if I persuade them!"

Then all youre attempting to do is preach to the choir if your whole point is to have a discussion and expect everyone to agree with you. Im assuming you didnt make that thread for the purpose of hearing your own voice and everyone applauding you, but rather to express your view and either demonstrate or convince others of your view. You know, what typical forum style conversations are built upon.

So yeah, resorting to proclaiming people dont want 'x' while implying racism and bigotry isnt serving your point, and comes across more as "Imma throw up my arms and just call you all names cause Im tired of the discussion."

[Nandina]

Willfully construing your oppositions positions as bigoted or racist does not garner favor among the very people you are trying to persuade.

And INB4 "Oh but I dont care if I persuade them!"

Then all youre attempting to do is preach to the choir if your whole point is to have a discussion and expect everyone to agree with you. Im assuming you didnt make that thread for the purpose of hearing your own voice and everyone applauding you, but rather to express your view and either demonstrate or convince others of your view. You know, what typical forum style conversations are built upon.

So yeah, resorting to proclaiming people dont want 'x' while implying racism and bigotry isnt serving your point, and comes across more as "Imma throw up my arms and just call you all names cause Im tired of the discussion."

The question was really asked to SE, tbh. I don't care whether people agree or not, there have been people who disagreed and we're cool. I've had very productive dialogues with those people, but those people were consistent in their argument. They didn't accuse me of a stupid "race war", being divisive, they didn't argue semantics, or any of that other BS, which is why my responses to them are markedly nicer. Notice it's really only the same group of people doing that.

[Melichoir]

The question was really asked to SE, tbh. I don't care whether people agree or not, there have been people who disagreed and we're cool. I've had very productive dialogues with those people, but those people were consistent in their argument. They didn't accuse me of a stupid "race war", being divisive, they didn't argue semantics, or any of that other BS, which is why my responses to them are markedly nicer. Notice it's really only the same group of people doing that.

This actually complicates things for you, not clarifies. Because based on the things you stated in your opener, as well as how you phrased them, it comes across as accusatory and with intent to inflame SE. So if your question was directed at SE, why would you phrase it and engage it the way you did? This actually supports my position: Construing your opposition as bigoted or racist isnt helpful in persuading them. If your question is directed at SE, creating a title named "Character-Creation-Has-A-Race-Problem" and then writing things like "I bring this up, because there are many black and brown people who play this game, yet the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white. Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game" is going to be seen by even the most moderate of Devs as inflammatory and divisive. Was this your intent?

Let me rephrase this: If you had a problem with a super market chain and the food they provide, do you go to their management and say "Hey, I noticed you guys dont carry this but I think this would be greatly appreciated." or do you say "Hey! This supermarket has a race problem. They dont have food for my black and brown friends, and theyre paying customers too!"

One brings it up about what owuld make the market better as a helpful suggestion, the other makes it a racial issue and implies bigotry and discrimination. Surely you dont think the latter is the ideal approach?