Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Lunaxia]

If that is all you are responding to from my post then I guess you have nothing, as usual.

No, I just don't waste my time with people who don't have the slightest interest in any sort of genuine exchange and are clearly out to pick a fight with me. The grudge you hold would make any discussion pointless.

snip.

No, it isn't. People have been arguing against the inclusion of IRL in FF, and they're directly named or referenced IRL religions with no background or lore explanation inserted into the game. The whole concept of heaven and hell, black vs white, halos and so on, is an entirely IRL (Christian) concept that has no place in the game.

[Miste]

No, I just don't waste my time with people who don't have the slightest interest in any sort of genuine exchange and are clearly out to pick a fight with me. The grudge you hold would make any discussion pointless.

How am I out to pick a fight with you by disagreeing that this game is discriminatory? Can you really not handle counter opinions that you would claim I am just "picking a fight" with you over it?

Also I have no grudge against you, that is just what you believe.

But, I guess you really have nothing to respond with except incorrect assumptions. /shrug

[Lunaxia]

I already said it is properly because it was the topic at hand, but I also do find it extremely unlikely you question representation for all groups across the board in all forms of media you consume.

Well, given that I'm female, I actually do because the bias is often forced into my face on a daily basis. Believe me, it's not something I enjoy seeing.

Also I have no grudge against you, that is just what you believe.

Whatever you say.

[Awha]

Well, given that I'm female, I actually do because the bias is often forced into my face on a daily basis. Believe me, it's not something I enjoy seeing.



Whatever you say.

With comments like that it just comes off as you feel discrimination is race and gender based. Granted at the very least going based off how you defined discrimination before. I am all for extra customization options, but no need to create a problem that does not exist.

[HyoMinPark]

No, it isn't. People have been arguing against the inclusion of IRL in FF, and they're directly named or referenced IRL religions with no background or lore explanation inserted into the game. The whole concept of heaven and hell, black vs white, halos and so on, is an entirely IRL (Christian) concept that has no place in the game.

Saying that glamour represent religions is still a massive reach.

FFXIV’s hell is a seven-layered hell, as is its heaven, but that doens’t make them the equivalents of Christianity’s Heaven and Hell as denoted by the Bible. The presence of an afterlife isn’t exclusive to Christianity either. Same thing with gods or angels or devils/demons, which are present in a myriad of cultures and religions. They aren’t Christian-exclusive.

Christianity also doesn’t have a “black versus white”/“light versus dark” concept, or a strict ownership on a “good versus evil” concept. “Halos” are present only in a single glamour...which isn’t even representative of the way most Christian art depicts halos. Halos also aren’t exclusively in Christianity (e.g., Buddha is sometimes depicted with a halo about him; Egyptian gods are sometimes depicted with halos above them).

There’s really no way around this reach.

[Lunaxia]

??

You have misunderstood me. I'm not saying FFXIV's afterlife has borrowed from Christianity, but in fact the opposite. The game is referencing it without any context. It's IRL iconography in-game which supposedly has "no place" there. You're also glossing over the direct mention of Taoism.

The halo depicted is in line with the Western image of angels derived from Christianity. The one Buddha is often depicted with is quite different.

[HyoMinPark]

You have misunderstood me. I'm not saying FFXIV's afterlife has borrowed from Christianity, but in fact the opposite. The game is referencing it without any context. It's IRL iconography in-game which supposedly has "no place" there. You're also glossing over the direct mention of Taoism.

Saying the opposite would be saying that Christianity borrowed from FFXIV’s afterlife. Considering that makes zero sense...

Referencing the afterlife in any form of media is referencing an archetype. As are all the other references you have tossed out (good versus evil; light versus dark; angels and demons, and devils and gods). Last I checked, there wasn’t a ban on borrowing common archetypes and using them in any form of media. That doesn’t make anything exclusive either.

All I was doing was pointing out how misinformed it is on your part to assume that all of the above described are inherent to Christianity. They’re so commonly found in other religions and cultures that they have evolved into literary archetypes.

By all means, show me proof how the Taoist glamour is representative of Taoism. If anything, it’s representative of a type of Chinese dress; not of the religion.

The halo depicted is in line with the Western image of angels derived from Christianity. The one Buddha is often depicted with is quite different.

They’re still all classified as halos. Christianity doesn’t have an exclusive claim on halos, just like it doesn’t have an exclusive claim on angels and demons; and the ones commonly found behind Jesus aren’t at all like the one depicted in the Angelic Attire glamour.

What on earth happened again with this thread, come on guys....I thought we fixed some issues by now.

It was fine for at least a little while until someone else came up and started crying about discrimination...

[Lunaxia]

tangent extraordinaire

The opposite is it hasn't borrowed from it at all. There is no link or connection made. It's a lone IRL reference with no FFXIV connection stuck in the middle of the game.

That particular depiction of an angel and devil is derived from Christianity. I'd thought that a given, but pedantry is the theme today apparently.

Are you joking? Taoism is the name of the religion. It is called a Taoist shirt, even fashioned in a similar style to Taoism robes worn in real life. It's not a Hingan shirt. It's not a Doman shirt. It's a reference to a real life religion being put directly into the game without regard to "lore", which is, supposedly, bad.

But it's still derived from Western imagery taken from Christianity. That was the image they chose. There's also the matter of the feathery white wings and long robes. It's a Western, Christian-inspired depiction with no relation to the FFXIV canon.

[HyoMinPark]

The opposite is it hasn't borrowed from it at all. There is no link or connection made. It's a lone IRL reference with no FFXIV connection stuck in the middle of the game.

That particular depiction of an angel and devil is derived from Christianity. I'd thought that a given, but pedantry is the theme today apparently.

Angels having white wings and devils having black wings is still an archetype. As is everything else you said (black versus white isn’t even a Christian concept). I would highly suggest you read up on what archetypes are.

Are you joking? Taoism is the name of the religion. It is called a Taoist shirt, even fashioned in a similar style to Taoism robes worn in real life. It's not a Hingan shirt. It's not a Doman shirt. It's a reference to a real life religion being put directly into the game without regard to "lore", which is, supposedly, bad.

Ah, yes, the “Taoist” reference in the Taoist Shirt or Taoist Slops tells me all about living in harmony with the Tao. /s

Using “Taoist” in the description doesn’t make it descritive of a religion. It doesn’t, in any shape or form, talk about the ideology of it. It’s representative of a Chinese style of dress; that says nothing about the actual religion. Again, the Taoist glamour is representative of a Chinese style of dress; not of an actual religion. Closest you can get is saying it represents a part of Chinese culture.

But it's still derived from Western imagery taken from Christianity. That was the image they chose. There's also the matter of the feathery white wings and long robes. It's a Western, Christian-inspired depiction with no relation to the FFXIV canon.

I guess we’re just going to ignore all those Western depictions of the halo behind Jesus’ head as a solid circle of light, not a skinny ring above his head... Funny that Buddha has similar halos depicted behind his head...



My point still stands: glamours don’t represent religions. You saying they do is a reach. I gave you way too much credit in my original response to Iscah.

[Lunaxia]

brick wall

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse at this point. You misunderstood my original point and you're misunderstanding me now. The point is they mean nothing in the FFXIV canon. They're not representative, they're meaningless references taken from IRL. The point against more ethnic features was that this is a fantasy game that shouldn't borrow from IRL. This is direct borrowing from IRL with no lore or explanation behind it that was seen as perfectly acceptable.

And they didn't choose that halo, though. They chose the famous Western depiction associated with Christianity, along with robes and wings.