Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Granyala]

The major reason why I completely turn off names of characters in every MMO I play (if possible) is because players choose stuff that doesn't sound remotely name-like in any language possible. IamSupaMan, IOwnYou, EatMyDust and similar stuff is not names. But names I can turn off...characters themselves I cannot.

A kindred spirit, I see.
One can curb the worst of the caricatures pretty easily by adding sliders but keeping the possible values restricted to realistic looking body shapes.

Though we also need different models and textures as options, it always struck me as odd, that a caster is as ripped as a warrior, e.g.: WoW -> sporting muscles that made every bodybuilder envious. Yes, I know, heavy tomes and all that.

Another example along that line: if one wants to create older characters (not necessary Grandma like) and only has the body of a 20 yr old as an option.

[AriaFairchild]

The game is fine.

Source: am ethnically Vietnamese, dunno if that's brown enough for you.

[Skivvy]

I'm sorry, but though I'd appreciate more options here or there, I also disagree with this statement a lot.

Most of games that have far greater amount of customization do so by means of sliders, usually. As an end result...many caricatures are made. If I had to make a choice between a game with very few options and a game where caricatures can be made and everything else is equal, you can be 100% certain that I will pick the fewer options. I cannot make the "best looking character", but then again, I won't be surrounded by horrid abominations that some players find entertaining.
The major reason why I completely turn off names of characters in every MMO I play (if possible) is because players choose stuff that doesn't sound remotely name-like in any language possible. IamSupaMan, IOwnYou, EatMyDust and similar stuff is not names. But names I can turn off...characters themselves I cannot.

A character creator that both gives a lot of freedom and prevents making of caricatures would be like making a game in itself. The amount of work that'd have to come into it would be immense. So since that's not a possibility...a game with creator that have more limited options is actually better than a game that gives free reign. And this is also a reason that the developers of FFXIV don't see significant changes to the creator as high in priority list. They don't want these ridiculous designs either, something they DID actually state themselves, for the immersion breaking nature of that.

This particular thread was more focused on providing more ethnic looking options. New faces/facial features aren't going to hurt anyone, and more options in this manner would only be a plus (assuming the servers can survive). Going through this thread, you'll find several people who seem adamantly against adding new faces/features for reasons.

In regards to sliders, they can be tweaked to not allow extreme options. We already have a few sliders in this game and they're all tastefully done. As mentioned before GW2 utilizes the pre-set face options like XIV does, although they have sliders for eyes/noses/mouth/etc. You can make slightly questionable characters there if you try hard enough, but they are also far more toned down than other slider-games. That would be completely within the control of the developer.

But with all that said, I was just suggesting more faces/facial features. I don't see SE doing a complete overhaul of their character creator.

[kikix12]

One can curb the worst of the caricatures pretty easily by adding sliders but keeping the possible values restricted to realistic looking body shapes.

Yes, but it's not as easy as one would think. Humanly possible variations include people that are 1,6m and 1,9m high. Make a body of a 1,9m high person with the legs of a 1,6m high person and you have a caricature while using sliders limited to humanly possible values.

To avoid that, one would need to make proper algorithms that calculate proportions and actively limit options based on what else is selected. And that is what would take a lot of effort to make, seeing as proportions of just about anything is related to just about anything else, directly or indirectly.

This particular thread was more focused on providing more ethnic looking options.
(...)
In regards to sliders, they can be tweaked to not allow extreme options.

You are the one that both brought up other games and their creators and how much freedom they have, as well as as compared FFXIV to them. I merely responded to that. Only now do you seem to try and reduce the scope of that comparison, but even then, just at the face value for the sake of negating what I said.

That would be completely within the control of the developer.

Of course. It IS possible to make a wonderful character creator that allows to make characters of many varied races that completely seal any risk of caricature characters being made, all the while providing immense freedom. All with nothing but sliders. However, as I said, making even a restricted version of that is time consuming and costly. Too costly for vast majority of the games. Unless it would be made to match multiple games, thus be reused, the cost of such a well-made character creator will NOT return itself even in part. No matter what character creator you have, players will play the game if it's good and won't if it's not. And most people do NOT ever change their characters looks. I didn't even use a free Fantasia I got, it's still collecting dust on my retainer. Unless I'll want to make character on a different server, I won't even see the new character creator anymore. And most people are like me. So yes. The likelihood is that the choice is between limited options or caricatures, and I'd pick limited options every time. I know I'm one of the few in that...but yes.


That being said, I already brought up that I'm not against the idea of broadening those limited options in a controlled manner. But that was not relevant for my response to the particular statement you made there.

Going through this thread, you'll find several people who seem adamantly against adding new faces/features for reasons.

I'll admit I skipped since page 6 or so...but I have not seen one. All of them were more against the supposed "race problem" from the title. Sure, there were people that said the game is fine, but none were strictly against it. Just saying that it's not necessary.

[Ghastly]

I'm all for more character customization and hopefully they figure out how to add more options outside of hairstyles, but they also don't have a race problem, it's a limited customization problem.

That's what it is, it's almost impossible to get a thin nose roegadyn or slated eyes for lalafel. The request to add more Afrikan features is a viable request though, if we can ask for bigger butts, we can ask for fuller lip and wider nose options.

The game is fine.

Source: am ethnically Vietnamese, dunno if that's brown enough for you.

Vietnamese is a nationality, not a race

[AriaFairchild]

That's what it is, it's almost impossible to get a thin nose roegadyn or slated eyes for lalafel. The request to add more Afrikan features is a viable request though, if we can ask for bigger butts, we can ask for more fuller lip and wider nose options.



Vietnamese is a nationality, not a race

How about Asian? When the OP said brown, does that not include Southeast Asian or nah?

[Anarnee]

The afro is something you have to unlock, you don't get it right off the bat.

As a PoC, I disagree with you. The character creator 100% caters to Japanese players, and more specifically the FF aesthetic, a lot of the pieces in the creator look like FF things. It's not a white thing at all. Races in Eorzea are NOT the same as races in the real world, so while I think it would be nice to see some different types of ethnic traits, those things don't exist in Eorzea, so I don't think it's fair that you try you push it was a race thing.

There are no African Roegadyn, there are no African Hyur, there are no African miqote.

There are Hellsguard and Seawolf Roegadyn, there are Midlander and Highlander hyur, etc etc.

I would love more curly hair and face options, but please stop being in YOUR feeling and making it a race thing. Eorzea is not the real world, so stop bringing those real world problems here. It's really embarrassing to me as a black person to see people be manipulative like this and use a serious issue like this for a not serious thing. We have plenty to worry about without the false narratives.

[Ghastly]

How about Asian? When the OP said brown, does that not include Southeast Asian or nah?

OP is confused when she mentions "brown," brown is not a race, it's a synonym for mixed. That's entirely different from dark asian. To me this not about feelings or not siding with anyone, just going with scientific facts; southeast asians and afrikans are different races. The reason they're dark is because they used to be Afrikans before they became Asian.

[MrKusakabe]

It's also an MMO currently caught up in controversy over a developer getting fired in large part due to her obsession with identity politics. So that might not be the best example to use.

She got mostly fired because she - very basicly said - that feedback does not matter to her [and thus ArenaNet].

Please do not suck up the garbage the gaming "press" is spreading.

[ThunderGodThor]

She got mostly fired because she - very basicly said - that feedback does not matter to her [and thus ArenaNet].

Please do not suck up the garbage the gaming "press" is spreading.

It's all rather bizarre if I'm honest. I saw what the person in question did as it was happening and it was wholly unprofessional. I understand completely why she was fired. Seeing all these articles defending her is really quite confusing.