Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[KaivaC]

It's not moot. SE shouldn't market it outside of Japan, and want subscribers outside of Japan if they aren't willing to represent their subscriber base. FFXIV should just be a strictly Japanese MMO.

See, with this statement right here, it lets me know that you feel it's a race issue, when it's really not. This is a non issue. If you want to achieve a certain look, you have the options to do so. Limited options, yes, but it is still possible to get a look that your hoping could be representative

[Magic-Mal]

I think some of you are giving the OP a bit of a hard time for something not very complicated at all. While I wouldn't be opposed to more "African" features, I know they won't ever make it here because Yoshida said the character creator won't be updated any time soon. So we can lay that to rest. The lack of any kinky hairstyles is noticable and I think asking for more after this many years is a perfectly valid request.

We can start with making the Elezen female Fade cut, Midlander Frohawk, and Dreadlocks on female characters for all races and genders. There is no reason why men can't have locks. There is no reason why only Elezen women can cut their hair. There is no reason why only Midlanders can have a Frohawk when every race can have an Afro. Do away with these weird restrictions first and foremost, it would go a long way into making black-looking characters. Once that's dealt with what's the harm in adding more tightly twisted braids, cornrows, or a more shaggy haircut with kinky hair to the sea of straight hair we get in every single patch? Seriously. I get that 80% of the game is "white" but hey, it's difficult to make a "black" character so that could be why you don't see them as much.

Also, and most curiously, there ARE black people in Eorzea, plenty of them. I'm not sure why so many are saying or implying that they aren't in the game. I don't know what you guys are looking at. There are many black and "decidedly black" NPCs in game already. Sawney, that Gold Saucer guy with the gambler outfit, a completely random Skinchange GATE female NPC, many many NPCs in Gyr Abania which I'm guessing is where they come from, and I feel pretty certain that Raubahn is a black guy. Or "decidedly black". I'm not just talking about dark characters either because I know the "tan" excuse. I'm talking about the daarrk Hyur NPCs. The game lacks customization so it doesn't show it very well, it's no different than people from Othard(Asians clearly) looking straight up white. Devs had no issues adding Asian hairstyles though <.<.

In the end, I think people should lighten up a bit about this as there are no lore reasons against black people existing(they already do) and Yoshi still adds hairstyles. Give it a chance instead of trying to say it's political or that "we don't need it because this isn't Earth". Kugane obviously isn't Japanese. Those aren't Japanese people! Silly me. Ala Mhigo certainly isn't Middle Eastern. And Ishgard CERTAINLY isn't European. Give me a break.. let's not be sooo technical.

And lastly as a black person myself, I'd love to see more hairstyles compatible with a black character design opened up.

[KaivaC]

snip

The problem that I'm positive that a lot of people are currently having with the OP is that they directed this thread into a racial issue. The very first response they made here included this statement:

But I’m sure you’re represented and have no problems with the game reflecting you in real life, just not others

They started off fine, but when something like this is said, they are just inviting themselves to criticism over an unnecessary response.

[Magic-Mal]

They started off fine, but when something like this is said, they are just inviting themselves to criticism over an unnecessary response.

This is all going to be assumption on my part but I feel I understand why they responded in that way. To me it's simple. They're just retaliating. They ask for something they are obviously passionate about when it comes to character creation and it gets veritably shot down by pretty much everyone. So it doesn't surprise me that the response, by presumably a black person, got hostile and defensive quickly as the initial response. Granted it's not the best way to respond, I wouldn't have done the same, but it's understandable. To me. You should try to look a tad more into the why's and how's of their responses.

[Seig345]

[...]
But the community is able to make other complaints, which SE looks into and even adjusts in many instances, but when it comes to this particular one, suddenly it's invalid. Gotcha. No one is saying the character has to look exactly like them.

I never said your complaint was invalid, but okay, be hostile.

You are arguing that the game should have more options based on a lack of options that suit you. I am simply pointing out that the problem with this is that the basis of your complaint implies that the game needs to have every possible hairstyle and possible skin undertone possible for anyone who has the same complaint as you, unless you’re literally only asking SE to provide your personal request and not those of everyone else who wants more accurate features to match their rl selves but don’t have the same rl features as you.

[Iscah]

Skin tones run either cool or red, and there are absolutely no yellow undertones.

...

Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game.

There's not much in the 'standard human' pallette (Hyur/Wildwood/Sunseeker) but Lalafells seem to have more of a yellow range in their options. I'm not sure why they made that different.


However, the "lack of Asian faces in a Japanese game" suggests that whatever the source of the issue, it's not about "failing to represent other races because they are foreign". It's also a fantasy world that is (at least initially) set in a Europe-equivalent, so it does make sense for the characters to look more European - not that the 'Asian' Hyurans look any different once we get there.

For what it's worth, there doesn't seem to be an Africa equivalent, at least geographically - unless it's supposed to be Meracydia, but it's not connected by land to the other continents. (Also I've seen people say that Eorzea itself is meant to be Africa, based on the approximate shape of the continent, but that doesn't make sense culturally. Othard isn't shaped like Asia either.)

But is a Hyur’s origin Europe? Think before you type. I’m not saying a European has to look like anything other than what they are. Careful you may dislocate your shoulder with that reach.

It's not Earth, so how can we know? Maybe their origin doesn't mimic human origins on Earth. Again, there isn't an Africa for them to migrate out of, at least by a land route.

The lorebook information on Hyurans seems to say they came to Eorzea out of Ilsabard, and they're found across the Three Continents and the New World. (Again, information is lacking about Meracydia so they could be there as well, but we'll probably get to that sometime later.)

Some of you all really struggle to follow along. No wonder many can’t grasp moving out of red circles and to not spam Blizzard. I could’ve swore I said Hyur in the OP, and that’s what most have been discussing. Do try to keep up.

You said "red, grey and green people". Not Hyurans. The other races are still equally people. Hyurans' defining trait is being actually-kinda-boring and not venturing outside of (a subset of) real human traits. You pick a different race if you want unusual skin colours.

If you want to talk about lack of variety overall, you still need to look at all the options - otherwise you might be saying "I can't make my Hyur look like X" when actually you could have X if you used a different race. It depends which elements of the appearance are most important to you.

I started out as a dark duskwight because I started in limsa as arcanist. At first I thought it was good because the map shows it's in southern hemisphere.
Then I looked around, with light green/blue seawolves and sunseekers. I switched to wildwood after I learned more about hydaelyn, particularly gelmorra (home of lots of duskwights) which I'm surprised was underground, also the darker tones live in forest and caves (why??). The lore doesn't really match climate with races or works the opposite logic in eorZea. Othard makes more sense with confederates living by the sea.

Limsa is in the southern part of the map, but that's not the southern hemisphere - the map just shows northern-hemisphere continents. (Additionally, Sea Wolves originate from further north, and seem to be the Eorzean equivalent of Vikings.)

From what I remember of geography class, there's roughly a band of tropical climate around the equator, then desert either side, then temperate climate. Eorzea seems to be temperate with desert only in the southern region, plus Gyr Abania. (I wonder if the map is perfectly 'straight' or if there's some distortion going on. Or you can just blame it on aetherial states messing up geography or something, like Coerthas's eternal winter.)


But yes, skin tone does seem to be somewhat arbitrary - although despite having the option for Duskwights to have darker skintones, the few we actually see tend to be pale grey (eg. the researchers at Issom-Har in the South Shroud) or greyish-tan (possibly those that have been out in the sunlight more!). I can only think of seeing one really dark grey NPC, a Wood Wailer standing guard that progresses a quest when you speak to him, and isn't seen again after that.

For weirdness elsewhere, there's the few dark-skinned Ishgardian Elezen when most of the population are pale. It seems to be an individual/family trait rather than race-related.

[KaivaC]

This is all going to be assumption on my part but I feel I understand why they responded in that way. To me it's simple. They're just retaliating. They ask for something they are obviously passionate about when it comes to character creation and it gets veritably shot down by pretty much everyone. So it doesn't surprise me that the response, by presumably a black person, got hostile and defensive quickly as the initial response. Granted it's not the best way to respond, I wouldn't have done the same, but it's understandable. To me. You should try to look a tad more into the why's and how's of their responses.

Retaliating for what, though? That's literally the third response in the thread...the very first response was from a black individual sympathetic to their reasoning...so what in the world were they retaliating to?

[Emstidor]

You should probably look at highlander then.

Too bulky.

Now hang on, that was a perfectly viable suggestion, and in fact I think you'd find male and female highlanders have a lot more option to make traditionally "black" features, which you'd know if you weren't so deadset on forcing them into a subtype with a different design aesthetic.

[Tsumdere]

This is all going to be assumption on my part but I feel I understand why they responded in that way. To me it's simple. They're just retaliating. They ask for something they are obviously passionate about when it comes to character creation and it gets veritably shot down by pretty much everyone. So it doesn't surprise me that the response, by presumably a black person, got hostile and defensive quickly as the initial response. Granted it's not the best way to respond, I wouldn't have done the same, but it's understandable. To me. You should try to look a tad more into the why's and how's of their responses.

No one really shot down their ideas. Everyone seems to be on board with better character creation and more hairstyles, including those that are woefully under represented like wavy and curly. What people do not like the is the unnecessary aggression (see their response to my original post) and holier-than-thou WOKE AF attitude. There has been tons of threads simply asking for better black hairstyles and customization that weren't dripping with superiority that got very good responses.

[Magic-Mal]

Retaliating for what, though? That's literally the third response in the thread...the very first response was from a black individual sympathetic to their reasoning...so what in the world were they retaliating to?

Everyone else. Notice how OurMom disagreed with OP but OP didn't get upset with OurMom. Again I'm not saying the attitude is good. It's definitely not a good way to debate or argue.

Both sides should offer up better arguments than what has been used so far. Because honestly? None of what anyone has said has made me think "Okay this legitimately can't happen for this or that reason".