Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Magic-Mal]

The pedantry in this thread is real. If you walked up to anyone and asked what race they were, I highly doubt any of them would answer "human".

When you have threads like these, any behaviors and/or gestures that people actually do IRL normally simply go out the window. Don't worry.

[Iscah]

Please forgive me for reviving this thread, but there are a few things I feel I really need to say.

Firstly, I keep remembering this (which I wanted to respond to at the time, but the discussion was dying down and so I didn't want to restart it - but now it's bothering me since I think it was directed at me).

But I can't help but find it funny that many of you are saying that no one has a problem with the suggestions that could be added to the character customization, but when people talk about the suggestions, you go on to say why those suggestions can't be implemented because "this is a fantasy game" or "there are no real life equivalents to Africa." Seems to me people are against the idea. I'm going to need for you all to remain consistent. Can you all just say you don't want the black features in the game and just call it a day? It's really not that hard. Stick by what you say and mean it. All this deflection is unnecessary.

I guess you are referring to my posts with the "there is no equivalent to Africa" quote, but I had no intention of saying African-looking characters shouldn't be in the game. Rather that currently, since there is no African-inspired culture and thus no need to build NPCs on that theme, then the lack of 'African-style options' in the character creator may be attributed to that.

As the discussion has gone on I think my own thoughts have shifted somewhat - as I posted earlier, there's also the concept of anime characters being drawn "without nationality" and that it's the context, rather than their visible features, that indicate what race they're supposed to be. I think it's possible that that is the mindset with which these characters are designed - and if we do encounter African Hyurans in future they are likely to continue to use the Midlander model as-is. It seems to me that it's the same argument as that very-quickly-dismissed point about the Pokémon characters that got posted some way back in the discussion - the characters are stylised (though in this case 'more realistically' and in a way we associate with one race more than others, even if it wasn't meant that way), and not necessarily intended to represent the full variety of real-world facial features.


On "including 'black features' in the character creator", I'm not against them being included, and never intended that to be my argument. What I've been meaning to say is that however much of a good idea it might be to add them, it seems they won't be added in (at least for Midlanders, as you are requesting) unless they redesign the character creator - which they may not be able to do, at least without taking a considerable amount of resources away from other aspects of the game.

There's a difference between (A) what they could have done better at the start, and (B) what can be changed in the creator as it currently exists. As it currently exists, it seems they cannot add to the available options on existing faces, and if they "swap out" a current option for something new, that would affect existing characters that have that appearance. Every NPC that uses it would need to have their settings updated.

Same goes for the skin colour palette - the character data doesn't store the colour itself, but a grid-reference location of the colour on the palette. The options could have been set up better at the beginning, but now they can't be changed without affecting every character that refers to that colour grid.


=====


More generally, I've had this discussion in mind as I've been playing the game. I have an alt character in the pre-Titan "Company of Heroes" quest arc, and went to Forgotten Springs - I had totally forgotten (or not paid attention to) how dark-skinned some of the U tribe are. (It's one of the reasons I'm back here typing this - little pangs of guilt every time U'odh Nunh was on-screen.) And without my preconceived thought of Eorzea being strictly Europe, I can see that maybe it does make more sense as an African-desert-inspired region. Again, I don't know enough of those countries enough to recognise it as any more than "a desert oasis setting" without ever having been truly clear on where those are from in the real world.

Also I came across a little more information on Meracydia - firstly it's looking more likely that it's meant to be Africa, because the description for 'sesame seeds' says that the plant is native to there, and (having consulted Wikipedia) in our world it's native to Africa and India.

The other thing I came across that it's possible (but lore is inconsistent) that the Miqo'te originated from Meracydia. Make of that what you will.


=====


The last thing I wanted to bring up, is that at the end of all this discussion and all the talk about "African features"... it's affected what I'm thinking about when seeing people, and not in a good way. Instead of seeing someone with dark skin and thinking "yes, that's a person, they're African", it's now "what are the shape of their features? Why am I staring at them and thinking about their nose?"

Maybe it's just how my brain works. But it bothers me on a deep level that this discussion you've started with the intent of promoting diversity, has instead set me off thinking about the specific features of a race instead of just seeing people as people.

[Melichoir]

At this point, lets all just agree to disagree about this topic, and let this thread sink into the oblivion. There are plenty of more constructive things to do, like farm...stuff....yeah.

[Iscah]

Yeah, I’m wanting to let it sink. In fact I was wanting to left it sunk, but those things were bothering me enough that I had to respond for my own sake, and leaving it was going to be worse.

[Magic-Mal]

At this point, lets all just agree to disagree about this topic, and let this thread sink into the oblivion. There are plenty of more constructive things to do, like farm...stuff....yeah.

Tell that to the people in the parser thread too. That one is even longer than this!

[BlackExcellence]

Can a brotha get some braids?! How in the world is Raubahn such an important character and we've yet to get his outfit and hairstyle! Let me get my hands on that sweet braided ponytail so I can get rid of this joke afro they seem to think is sufficient enough.

[Insignation]

Imagine wanting to make a character that you like and having the options to do so.

When certain people are so used to being catered to all the time, they can't fathom anyone else being dissatisfied.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I would love if they gave us more afro centric hairstyles but just overall more anf better customization options in general would be killer

[sindriiisgaming]

So, I've been tempted to use a Fantasia, and change from Miqo'te, so I started playing around with the character creation, and the lack of diversity is abysmal. I wanted to make a Hyur female, but I can't help but notice there isn't much wiggle room. There's only one cute braided mohawk style, and some dookie dreads. Where are the curly or even kinky hair styles? There are no flat twists, no cornrows, no box braids, no senegalese twists, no two strand twists, etc. I thought there was an afro option, but I didn't see that either. Under the nose options, there's are no truly wider options (I'm not saying the nose has to take up the entire face). There are no larger fuller lips. Skin tones run either cool or red, and there are absolutely no yellow undertones. Many of the little boxes on the skin color grid are virtually indistinguishable from the ones at least four spaces from them vertically, making them a waste. On brown skin tones, this makes the character appear ashy and in severe need of lotion. Skin tone alone is not diversity. Sure you can make your character Sudanese black, but if the nose and lips are slim and thin, is it really a black person? No.

Releasing multiple hairstyles is cute, but when are we going to get some new faces, noses, lips, and eyebrows that don't harken back to the late 90s and early 2000s? There's nothing wrong with a thicker brow. I bring this up, because there are many black and brown people who play this game, yet the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white. Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game. So you mean to tell me that my black and brown friends are good enough to receive a subscription from, but not good enough to have the character creation cater to them as well? I'm biracial (black mom, Russian dad) and while I'm not dark skinned I don't have thin lips and sharp facial features.

I already know some people are going to be in their feelings about this, and that's fine.

I feel this issue deeply with auras. There faces are locked to horns causing ppl to refer to them as "face I, face II. Face III ect. Characters looking unique in this game takes legit talent bevause the devs are kind uninterested in fleshing character creation out

[Turtledeluxe]

As a black person, I know where you're coming from but this is one of those situations that won't be fixed in this game or any game like it. They already said they can't add more faces or it'll mess the game up. Since there can only be x amount of faces they're going to go the safe route.

Honestly I wouldn't want any of those features in a game like this, there's no slider and when we leave non black people to add defaults for that, it's just awful. Like in Archeage for example, the skin tone at the start of the NA launch was either tan or cartoony pitch black and there's no slider for the skin tone so we had to wait awhile before that was fixed(and the options still aren't great, several shades of pink 2 shades of brown).

However in games like BDO and Aion there's sliders so you can adjust your characters facial features and make it actually look black. Also maybe we should stop looking for other races to accommodate us and start making our own video games.

I'm sorry but HUH? How is this game supposed to last 20 years with these sorts of limitations? It's not just faces but things like housing, glamour, etc. With all these technical limitations it seems crazy to me to not just move on to a new MMO in the long term.

Hopefully when Yoshi P said the 10 year thing he meant that FFXVII online (or whatever) will launch at some point between then but XIV will still be serviced until the end of the next 10 years.