Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Aana]

Ironically enough, your Pokemon example is a case of what the OP and other people in this thread are arguing against.



Don't you see they CLEARLY just substituted darker skin on characters with traditionally caucasian features, which is NOT ENOUGH and stands as evidence of the DISCRIMINATION that PoC have to endure every day!

Is it any wonder people didn't take this thread seriously?

Which part is Caucasian again? The grapefruit sized anime eyes? the spec pen drop tip that represents an entire nose? The completely non existant lips? These are a symbol of a human face. No human on the planet, let alone race of people actually look like this. They are approximations of a human. A caricature of a homosapien. If you were to draw the darker skinned people to include the same ridiculous caricature style features but of black people you would end up with big fat cartoon lips and a wide nose and people would be pointing to the racist drawings of the jim crow era and be outraged. Heck the only 'caucasian' thing about them is the white ones have an option for blue eyes and the darker faces only have darker eyes. Thats the most realistic thing in this whole image lol.

[HyoMinPark]

The opposite is it hasn't borrowed from it at all. There is no link or connection made. It's a lone IRL reference with no FFXIV connection stuck in the middle of the game.

That particular depiction of an angel and devil is derived from Christianity. I'd thought that a given, but pedantry is the theme today apparently.

Angels having white wings and devils having black wings is still an archetype. As is everything else you said (black versus white isn’t even a Christian concept). I would highly suggest you read up on what archetypes are.

Are you joking? Taoism is the name of the religion. It is called a Taoist shirt, even fashioned in a similar style to Taoism robes worn in real life. It's not a Hingan shirt. It's not a Doman shirt. It's a reference to a real life religion being put directly into the game without regard to "lore", which is, supposedly, bad.

Ah, yes, the “Taoist” reference in the Taoist Shirt or Taoist Slops tells me all about living in harmony with the Tao. /s

Using “Taoist” in the description doesn’t make it descritive of a religion. It doesn’t, in any shape or form, talk about the ideology of it. It’s representative of a Chinese style of dress; that says nothing about the actual religion. Again, the Taoist glamour is representative of a Chinese style of dress; not of an actual religion. Closest you can get is saying it represents a part of Chinese culture.

But it's still derived from Western imagery taken from Christianity. That was the image they chose. There's also the matter of the feathery white wings and long robes. It's a Western, Christian-inspired depiction with no relation to the FFXIV canon.

I guess we’re just going to ignore all those Western depictions of the halo behind Jesus’ head as a solid circle of light, not a skinny ring above his head... Funny that Buddha has similar halos depicted behind his head...



My point still stands: glamours don’t represent religions. You saying they do is a reach. I gave you way too much credit in my original response to Iscah.

[Sigma-Astra]

Honestly speaking, and this is a one time only thing because I'm not getting fully involved into this nonsense. But, costumes or clothing in JRPG's, even MMO's based on other religions or cultures is not a new trend, however, that does not nor has it ever meant that the game or lore itself supports those religions or cultures. Sure, we can say that the creators were inspired and drew ideas and inspiration to put into the design, but that doesn't mean that they have to make it canon or even explain why it's in there nor explain why they even thought about it.

Aurica from Ar Tonelico has two Cosmosphere costumes that are clearly based on the angel/devil concepts of Christianity. These are legit things in the game that you will be wearing because they offer different HP, stat values, and bonuses until you get the lvl 8 Cosmosphere costume.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20091028052119

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20091028052148

This does not mean that the world and lore of Ar Tonelico supports a religion based on Christianity or that the costumes represent said religion, nor does the creator need to explain it. There's no such thing as a legit heaven or hell or legit angels and demons in the world. Most people worship the Sol Ciel's tower administrator, Shurelia, while they fear the mother of all viruses and hater of humans, Mir. There's only three kinds of people in the world: humans, viruses, and Revyateils.....four if you count monsters.

[Joven]

Or people grow up a bit, ignore the silly little race war that a few people were bickering over, and discuss the topic at hand. However, this being the OF, you're probably correct.

Race IS part of the topic since it's included in the title so people are discussing that. We all agree about more customization options, but not about WHY they should be implemented.

[Magic-Mal]

Or people grow up a bit, ignore the silly little race war that a few people were bickering over, and discuss the topic at hand. However, this being the OF, you're probably correct.

They won't. Proving my earlier point, everyone decided to post in this thread again the moment it became about race war stuff. It's clear that's all anyone wants to talk about. It's definitely pointless now. People don't want to actually talk about the subject.

[Skivvy]

Race IS part of the topic since it's included in the title so people are discussing that. We all agree about more customization options, but not about WHY they should be implemented.

Of course race is part of the thread, but the bickering over the nonsense was not needed which is why I made my comment. It is very possible to have a civil conversation regarding sensitive topics, all whilst remaining on topic - even with people with whom you disagree. People should try harder.

[HyoMinPark]

They won't. Proving my earlier point, everyone decided to post in this thread again the moment it became about race war stuff. It's clear that's all anyone wants to talk about. It's definitely pointless now. People don't want to actually talk about the subject.

Telling someone glamour doesn’t represent religion =/= race war stuff. Just pointing that out.

Of course race is part of the thread, but the bickering over the nonsense was not needed which is why I made my comment. It is very possible to have a civil conversation regarding sensitive topics, all whilst remaining on topic - even with people with whom you disagree. People should try harder.

In all fairness, it’s difficult to remain cordial with individuals who insinuate that you’re “slow”, or who tell you to “keep up” when you disagree with them.

[Sigma-Astra]

They won't. Proving my earlier point, everyone decided to post in this thread again the moment it became about race war stuff. It's clear that's all anyone wants to talk about. It's definitely pointless now. People don't want to actually talk about the subject.

Actually, I think we're on religious intent now. Maybe...?

[Lunaxia]

snip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...ew_York_(state)

Among New York State's cities, as of 2010, New York City is 44% white, 28% Latino, 25% African American, and 13% percent Asian American. The city of Buffalo, New York state's second-largest city, is 50% white (45% non-Hispanic white), 38% African American, 10% Latino, and 3% Asian American. The state capital of Albany is 57% white (64% non-Hispanic white), 30% African American, 8% Latino, and 5% Asian American.

20% is not small by any means, and certainly not small enough to justify the poor representation in media. 1 in 5 is a significant amount considering the number of characters in any given TV show or film, and even more so among the number of notable celebrities. Multi-culturalism is growing, but there will always be closet racists who dig in their heels and cause an uproar. I didn't agree with the Chinese dress being cultural appropriation, and from what I saw, neither did most people, Chinese or not.

snip.

Yes, it's clearly their fault they're under-represented. They enjoy being held to white standards for beauty across all media and having to see themselves as either awkward caricatures or not at all. There is no sexism or racism or bias, and to imply otherwise and make the majority uncomfortable is just plain rude and insensitive.

It must be a lovely little bubble you live in.

[Skivvy]

In all fairness, it’s difficult to remain cordial with individuals who insinuate that you’re “slow”, or who tell you to “keep up” when you disagree with them.

Ayee, this is true as well. Usually best to just ignore them at that point, although I think we've all been guilty at times of indulging when we probably shouldn't. ><