Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[MoroMurasaki]

snipp

I know this was aimed at Cass but I would ignore the attitude and save the endangered species. Ignoring how much more important biodiversity is irl than in a video game I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding going on here.

I don't think anyone has said "No, further character customization would be bad" the closest I could find to that was people expressing their concerns that further character customization could diminish the already waning amount of content we are seeing perpatch, a notion with which I agree.

Most posts criticizing the OP are saying that the way they went about suggesting this change was poor. There is not a "race problem" in character creation right now. This is not a racial issue. To make it one is silly.

Many of us have zero issue with the actual proposed changes but rather think the reasoning behind them is just shoddy.

I can only speak for myself but I think many others feel the same. More character customization is awesome but SE isn't being racially insensitive for not having it.

[Magic-Mal]

I know this was aimed at Cass but I would ignore the attitude and save the endangered species. Ignoring how much more important biodiversity is irl than in a video game I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding going on here.

Just remember that it's not about whether or not it's RL or a game. It's about the principle. If you could ignore the guy's attitude there but can't ignore the OP's attitude here, that would mean you pick and choose only what you want to ignore based on how much you personally care for what they're suggesting. Which sounds hypocritical.(General you's)

the closest I could find to that was people expressing their concerns that further character customization could diminish the already waning amount of content we are seeing perpatch, a notion with which I agree.

If I remember correctly, that was only one person out if all 26-27 pages. And he/she only posted that today.

Most posts criticizing the OP are saying that the way they went about suggesting this change was poor. There is not a "race problem" in character creation right now. This is not a racial issue. To make it one is silly.

Many of us have zero issue with the actual proposed changes but rather think the reasoning behind them is just shoddy.

This is the OP's first post with the small piece of "racism" cut out. And it is small:

So, I've been tempted to use a Fantasia, and change from Miqo'te, so I started playing around with the character creation, and the lack of diversity is abysmal. I wanted to make a Hyur female, but I can't help but notice there isn't much wiggle room. There's only one cute braided mohawk style, and some dookie dreads. Where are the curly or even kinky hair styles? There are no flat twists, no cornrows, no box braids, no senegalese twists, no two strand twists, etc. I thought there was an afro option, but I didn't see that either. Under the nose options, there's are no truly wider options (I'm not saying the nose has to take up the entire face). There are no larger fuller lips. Skin tones run either cool or red, and there are absolutely no yellow undertones. Many of the little boxes on the skin color grid are virtually indistinguishable from the ones at least four spaces from them vertically, making them a waste. On brown skin tones, this makes the character appear ashy and in severe need of lotion. Skin tone alone is not diversity. Sure you can make your character Sudanese black, but if the nose and lips are slim and thin, is it really a black person? No.

Releasing multiple hairstyles is cute, but when are we going to get some new faces, noses, lips, and eyebrows that don't harken back to the late 90s and early 2000s? There's nothing wrong with a thicker brow. <I bring this up, because there are many black and brown people who play this game, yet the character creation only caters to one demographic for the most part, and that's white. Ironically, I don't even see Asian faces despite this being a Japanese game. So you mean to tell me that my black and brown friends are good enough to receive a subscription from, but not good enough to have the character creation cater to them as well?> I'm biracial (black mom, Russian dad) and while I'm not dark skinned I don't have thin lips and sharp facial features.

I already know some people are going to be in their feelings about this, and that's fine.

Seems pretty clear what she wants. She made it clear for sure what she was asking for throughout the post. And not in an aggressive way. People are making her out as some kind of villain but what's really so bad?

And then Valkyrie's post in response:

I wouldn't say it has a race problem, as all the games races are pretty well represented, and you can choose your skin color to be whatever you want.

racial characteristics from the real world shouldn't apply, as the game doesn't denote races by color. Stop looking for racial issues where they don't exist, it makes it harder to fight for them where they do actually exist.

The most liked post, and has nothing to do with her request. Instead it provokes race and latches on to that single piece of Nandina's post.

Everyone attached to that one little piece of her whole thread and made this 27 pages of nothing.

[KaivaC]

Seems pretty clear what she wants. She made it clear for sure what she was asking for throughout the post. And not in an aggressive way. Everyone attached to that one little piece of her whole thread and made this 27 pages of nothing.

No, Magic. She turned the tone of this thread when she responded with an unnece...you know what, the hell with the sugarcoasting and pretense, she turned the tone of this thread when she responded to valkyrie's response with a semi-racist post of its own. I'm gonna call it what it is. It was semi-racist. Not calling her racist, but the tone of her very first response was semi-racist in nature. That's what started this ridiculous argument over an asinine topic. It's not the first time she's shared similar language since that posting either. Are the other posters innocent by comparison? Depending on the response, no, some of the responses, mines included, aren't innocent either. But she set that tone, and here we are: the responses therein follow that tone all the way through to here. valkyrie's initial post was aggressive...but it wasn't wrong. And I agree with the tone there - one shouldn't be looking for context over the freaking character creation when there is no context to begin with. The only leg that Nandina would've had to stand on was if the character creator did not allow any darker skin tones. That would've been the only leg she would've had.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Okay here's an example. So Bengal Tigers are going extinct. This foreigner guy comes up to your country with this brilliant idea to save all the tigers from dying but at the same time he shows disdain towards the people of the country. Do you, as a member of the country:
A. Set aside your differences, get over the guy's attitude, accept the suggestion, and save the tigers.

Or

B. Refuse to support the plan because you don't like what the guy says about the country and all the tigers die.

Pick. It's not about real life compared to the game, it's about the principle.

This is a disingenuous comparison. It implies the OP is 100% accurate despite the initial claim being widely exaggerative and unsubstantiated. A better example would be that same foreigner presenting a theory they believe will benefit tigers yet doing so in such a ill perceived matter people are either skeptical or entirely dismissive. You can have the best idea in the world, if you present it poorly, you lose the audience's trust and barring absolute evidence, many will tune you out.

Once again, if the OP wanted to actually discuss customization in good faith, why not show humility, acknowledge the faulty start and try to sheer the conversation towards it? She didn't. She doubled down repeatedly and blamed everyone else, thus people continued the derailment. Is it just the OP? No. We all have contributed in our own way, but that happened long ago.

I can point out where you're breaking them, while you can't do the same; all you can do is state it without anything to back it up.

I mean, if going off topic is report worthy. Couldn't we have reported you for derailing your own thread about the proper citation etiquette? That lasted seven pages in a thread supposed about... Eureka, was it?

[Ghastly]

This is a disingenuous comparison. It implies the OP is 100% accurate despite the initial claim being widely exaggerative and unsubstantiated. A better example would be that same foreigner presenting a theory they believe will benefit tigers yet doing so in such a ill perceived matter people are either skeptical or entirely dismissive. You can have the best idea in the world, if you present it poorly, you lose the audience's trust and barring absolute evidence, many will tune you out.

Once again, if the OP wanted to actually discuss customization in good faith, why not show humility, acknowledge the faulty start and try to sheer the conversation towards it? She didn't. She doubled down repeatedly and blamed everyone else, thus people continued the derailment. Is it just the OP? No. We all have contributed in our own way, but that happened long ago.



I mean, if going off topic is report worthy. Couldn't we have reported you for derailing your own thread about the proper citation etiquette? That lasted seven pages in a thread supposed about... Eureka, was it?

Just because you state it doesn't make it true. Some of you here have a habit of making accusations without proof, it really speaks volumes. Furthermore, if your personal vendetta is that strong that you need to look into other topics to avoid talking about the topic then that actually says more about you.

[Transient_Shadow]

Ok this post while I understand where its coming from I have to disagree with. So I'm going to share something rather personal.

This is Arandas 1.0 I made him when I first joined FFXIV. I was in a very dark place in my life at the time and he represented my hope for joy and beauty. I chose dark skin mainly because it emanates the warmth and beauty of the sun. I normally even had golden eyeliner to match his eyes but in this pick I was doing some makeup for a guild.

That being said. Is my wonderful original incarnation of Arandas a perfect reflection of black people? No. But he was the perfect expression of my hopes, loves, and desires in a very hard time of my life.

Characters will never be perfect imitations of real life. But they don't need to be.

[Awha]

On a more serious note. Body hair and Lala's should it be a thing?

[Joven]

On a more serious note. Body hair and Lala's should it be a thing?

Absolutely

[Sigma-Astra]

I honestly just feel that a new topic/thread should be created because the well has already been kind of tainted and we're getting closer and closer towards the point that Sadako will come out.

...Actually, we may already be at that point. Make a new thread/title, I'll bring the Chex mix.

[AnaviAnael]

I think we can all agree that rather than saying there's a race issue, we definitely have a character creation issue. How long have we been asking for Au Ra horns to be a separate option from the face?

One thing that may help is a visual for some of the hairstyles the OP mentioned.

Flat Twist


Cornrows

Box Braids


Senegalese Twist


I just liked this one.


I think we can all get behind having styles like this added.