Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[wondergroove]

Except I never tried to justify it nor say people should ignore it? However I very firmly believe that sweeping aside the reasons why a Japanese company might not have their fingers on the pulse of cultural inclusion is culturally insensitive in and of itself. Wanting more inclusion and acknowledging/respecting why a culture might not immediately try to be that way are not mutually exclusive.

Except I know the reasoning behind the lack of inclusion. I said so multiple times. And, again, that reasoning doesn't mean SE or Japan is above criticism. Yes, I perfectly understand why it is the way it is. But I also know that it's an issue that can at the very least be discussed.

Acknowledging that it's an issue but understanding the reasons why it's an issue isn't "sweeping aside" anything. Lack of representation is lack of representation, and regardless of the reasons behind it, it's generally a good idea to allow your diverse, international playerbase to have more than a handful of diverse options.

I'm not asking for a riot, a game overhaul, the reformation of foreign countries, or for SE to be burned in the streets. I'm literally only saying that a lack of diverse physical traits in a character creator isn't Good, and that game designers have the capacity to do Better.

[Joven]

I never said it was malicious or even intentional. It doesn't have to be either to be wrong or worth criticizing, though, tbh.

I'm already aware of that this is a Japanese game and of the... uh, difficulties that Japan has with representation. Anime is already a great example of that. I'm not examining this through a "Western" lens; I'm looking through the lens of "human beings are extremely diverse and maybe art should be representative of that."

I understand the "reasoning" behind it. It doesn't make it any less of an issue, worth talking about, or something people should just blow over because everything else is just as bad. Ignorance isn't a good excuse for putting barely any effort into being respectfully diverse.

So yeah, I am going to ignore the reasons behind this particular lack of representation. I was aware of them before, I know them again now, and they're still not "good" enough to justify it.

I've said this before earlier in this post: works of fiction do not need to be diverse or represent anyone, respectfully or otherwise. it's solely at the descretion of the creator. I don't say this as someone who's white, I say this as someone who doesn't feel like I need to be "represented" in anything. If this game only had characters who were of African decent, if all characters were female or completely non-human I'd still play it as long as it looked interesting. My identity isn't my skin color or facial features.

[wondergroove]

I've said this before earlier in this post: works of fiction do not need to diverse or represent anyone, respectfully or otherwise. it's solely at the descretion of the creator. I don't say this as someone who's white, I say this as someone who doesn't feel like I need to be "represented" in anything. If this game only had characters who were of African decent, if all characters were female or completely non-human I'd still play it as long as it looked interesting. My identity isn't my skin color or facial features.

Interesting tale bud, but not everyone feels that way. If you don't want more diverse representation because it doesn't effect you in any way, then you don't have to talk about it or advocate it in any way.

For a lot of people, they HAVE to play as the default white dude in games. They HAVE to play as something that isn't like them because it's the only option available. Even when there IS customization available, the options are usually still pretty limited.

Also, you're right; creators don't have to try and respectfully represent people when they create something. Fans of that creation still have every right to criticize it, point out the lack of diversity, and how that may frustrate them, however.

[Seig345]

Pretty sure people offering differing opinions is not the same thing as invalidating the opinions of others.

Pointing out that something isn't practical, however nice/diversifying it would be, is not the same as invalidating or otherwise outright opposing it.

We have every right to criticize the creation we're a fan of; however, when you present that criticism on a public forum, other forum users have equal right to criticize that criticism or otherwise offer differing opinions.

[Theodric]

For a lot of people, they HAVE to play as the default white dude in games. They HAVE to play as something that isn't like them because it's the only option available. Even when there IS customization available, the options are usually still pretty limited.

Many games have a set protagonist and the developers intend to tell that protagonist's story. If people choose to turn up their noses at a particular game because they cannot 'play themselves' then they're missing out on a lot of solid titles. In a game with a character creation system, you can - more often than not - adjust the skin tone of your character to reflect your own look if that is what you are willing to do.

With that said, though, bundling all 'white dudes' together seems rather strange. There is an immense amount of diversity where Caucasians are concerned. To name but a few, there's the Irish, the British, the Scottish, the Welsh, the French, the Croatian, the Polish and so on.

It feels like some people claim that they want more diversity yet in reality they only want 'visible' diversity.

For the record, I'm a guy who likes other guys. I have no issue playing a character that is straight. Is it nice when I can play a character that is gay or bisexual? Sure! Yet it isn't a necessity...because not every story can or will accommodate every possibility.

[MsQi]

Many games have a set protagonist and the developers intend to tell that protagonist's story. If people choose to turn up their noses at a particular game because they cannot 'play themselves' then they're missing out on a lot of solid titles.

I only play characters that are exactly like me.

[FeliAiko]

I get the general sentiment of the OP, and while the thread title could've been better, part of me doubts the feedback they received would've been much different. I remember when SE showcased the Afro, I said something about how it was a poor representation of a non-white hairstyle (as in, the design itself was bad), and ended up being accused of saying that long and short hair was 'white only'. People end up seeing what they want to see, instead of dealing with the point at hand.

Anyways, given the evident limitations of the CC as a whole, the only outlet for more options we'll get is through the addition of new hairstyles. Too bad it's more likely to be another long/short straight hair variant on the occasions they release them though.

[Theodric]

Thankfully Japan has no obligation to bend over backwards to accommodate the every whim of foreign customers or drastically change its society to appease the delicate sensibilities of those deliberately going out of their way to be offended. I'm not suggesting that Japan doesn't have issues since every country does. Yet the official site of a video game really isn't a suitable platform to discuss such things at length.

Not having the hairstyles you want in a game's character creation isn't a case of racism at all - especially when the game's developers are free to design the inhabitants of their world as they see fit. Furthermore there's already some 'diverse' hairstyles and skin tones in the game as has been pointed out many times within this very thread.

The attempts to paint Square Enix and Japan as a whole as some kind of villain is rather offensive and deceptive. If you feel that strongly about being wronged, perhaps you should vote with your wallet...?

[FeliAiko]

Thankfully Japan has no obligation to bend over backwards to accommodate the every whim of foreign customers or drastically change its society to appease the delicate sensibilities of those deliberately going out of their way to be offended. I'm not suggesting that Japan doesn't have issues since every country does. Yet the official site of a video game really isn't a suitable platform to discuss such things at length.

Not having the hairstyles you want in a game's character creation isn't a case of racism at all - especially when the game's developers are free to design the inhabitants of their world as they see fit. Furthermore there's already some 'diverse' hairstyles and skin tones in the game as has been pointed out many times within this very thread.

The attempts to paint Square Enix and Japan as a whole as some kind of villain is rather offensive and deceptive. If you feel that strongly about being wronged, perhaps you should vote with your wallet...?

Just like how SE has no obligation to accommodate glamour options that prioritise male characters first and foremost, right?

Anyways, that mess above isn't even that serious. Talk about an overreaction, all while accusing others of going out of their way to be offended, no less...

[wondergroove]

Thankfully Japan has no obligation to bend over backwards to accommodate the every whim of foreign customers or drastically change its society to appease the delicate sensibilities of those deliberately going out of their way to be offended. I'm not suggesting that Japan doesn't have issues since every country does. Yet the official site of a video game really isn't a suitable platform to discuss such things at length.

Not having the hairstyles you want in a game's character creation isn't a case of racism at all - especially when the game's developers are free to design the inhabitants of their world as they see fit. Furthermore there's already some 'diverse' hairstyles and skin tones in the game as has been pointed out many times within this very thread.

The attempts to paint Square Enix and Japan as a whole as some kind of villain is rather offensive and deceptive. If you feel that strongly about being wronged, perhaps you should vote with your wallet...?

Except no one is getting up in arms about this. No one is calling SE evil or a villain. No one is asking SE to bend over backwards or "drastically change its society". It seems like you're putting words in people's mouths in an attempt to be overly offended about people criticizing a game you like.

People bring up "hey this thing might be kinda racist, maybe we could talk about it instead of ignoring it" calmly, and then you get a bunch of irrationally angry people saying that just the act of bringing the topic up is "drastic" and that everyone who does so is only doing it because they have """""""""delicate sensibilities"""""""""".

If you don't think it's an issue, that's perfectly fine. You don't have to talk about it or join in on discussions where people are talking about it, especially considering it apparently doesn't affect you either way. That doesn't mean it isn't worth talking about or that no one should bother.

And actually, discussing this on the forums is the perfect place to bring this up. Even if nothing comes from it, this is literally the exact place where players go to voice concerns or talk about issues. This is literally what the forums were made for, I can't...

Anyways, there are many problems going on all over the world, but your refusal to acknowledge them because you, personally, can't comprehend them doesn't prove they don't exist.

Making out anyone who tries to discuss issues in a game as some kind of irrational angry straw man is both deceptive and just an overall poor argument altogether.