Character Creation Has A Race Problem

[Joven]

It never hurts to keep an eye on your competition and maybe even get inspiration from them. Improving on a game is always possible, and there are many, MANY things that other games handle in a superior way.

True, but if the they wanted to add to it then they would have by now. Pining for features from other games is pretty moot.

[kikix12]

I don't get why people seem to relish the the fact that customization is so limited in this game. I personally have been able to make characters I like, so I'm content enough, but many other games blow XIV out of the water with the characters you can create.

I'm sorry, but though I'd appreciate more options here or there, I also disagree with this statement a lot.

Most of games that have far greater amount of customization do so by means of sliders, usually. As an end result...many caricatures are made. If I had to make a choice between a game with very few options and a game where caricatures can be made and everything else is equal, you can be 100% certain that I will pick the fewer options. I cannot make the "best looking character", but then again, I won't be surrounded by horrid abominations that some players find entertaining.
The major reason why I completely turn off names of characters in every MMO I play (if possible) is because players choose stuff that doesn't sound remotely name-like in any language possible. IamSupaMan, IOwnYou, EatMyDust and similar stuff is not names. But names I can turn off...characters themselves I cannot.

A character creator that both gives a lot of freedom and prevents making of caricatures would be like making a game in itself. The amount of work that'd have to come into it would be immense. So since that's not a possibility...a game with creator that have more limited options is actually better than a game that gives free reign. And this is also a reason that the developers of FFXIV don't see significant changes to the creator as high in priority list. They don't want these ridiculous designs either, something they DID actually state themselves, for the immersion breaking nature of that.

[Granyala]

The major reason why I completely turn off names of characters in every MMO I play (if possible) is because players choose stuff that doesn't sound remotely name-like in any language possible. IamSupaMan, IOwnYou, EatMyDust and similar stuff is not names. But names I can turn off...characters themselves I cannot.

A kindred spirit, I see.
One can curb the worst of the caricatures pretty easily by adding sliders but keeping the possible values restricted to realistic looking body shapes.

Though we also need different models and textures as options, it always struck me as odd, that a caster is as ripped as a warrior, e.g.: WoW -> sporting muscles that made every bodybuilder envious. Yes, I know, heavy tomes and all that.

Another example along that line: if one wants to create older characters (not necessary Grandma like) and only has the body of a 20 yr old as an option.

[kikix12]

One can curb the worst of the caricatures pretty easily by adding sliders but keeping the possible values restricted to realistic looking body shapes.

Yes, but it's not as easy as one would think. Humanly possible variations include people that are 1,6m and 1,9m high. Make a body of a 1,9m high person with the legs of a 1,6m high person and you have a caricature while using sliders limited to humanly possible values.

To avoid that, one would need to make proper algorithms that calculate proportions and actively limit options based on what else is selected. And that is what would take a lot of effort to make, seeing as proportions of just about anything is related to just about anything else, directly or indirectly.

This particular thread was more focused on providing more ethnic looking options.
(...)
In regards to sliders, they can be tweaked to not allow extreme options.

You are the one that both brought up other games and their creators and how much freedom they have, as well as as compared FFXIV to them. I merely responded to that. Only now do you seem to try and reduce the scope of that comparison, but even then, just at the face value for the sake of negating what I said.

That would be completely within the control of the developer.

Of course. It IS possible to make a wonderful character creator that allows to make characters of many varied races that completely seal any risk of caricature characters being made, all the while providing immense freedom. All with nothing but sliders. However, as I said, making even a restricted version of that is time consuming and costly. Too costly for vast majority of the games. Unless it would be made to match multiple games, thus be reused, the cost of such a well-made character creator will NOT return itself even in part. No matter what character creator you have, players will play the game if it's good and won't if it's not. And most people do NOT ever change their characters looks. I didn't even use a free Fantasia I got, it's still collecting dust on my retainer. Unless I'll want to make character on a different server, I won't even see the new character creator anymore. And most people are like me. So yes. The likelihood is that the choice is between limited options or caricatures, and I'd pick limited options every time. I know I'm one of the few in that...but yes.


That being said, I already brought up that I'm not against the idea of broadening those limited options in a controlled manner. But that was not relevant for my response to the particular statement you made there.

Going through this thread, you'll find several people who seem adamantly against adding new faces/features for reasons.

I'll admit I skipped since page 6 or so...but I have not seen one. All of them were more against the supposed "race problem" from the title. Sure, there were people that said the game is fine, but none were strictly against it. Just saying that it's not necessary.

[Skivvy]

I'm sorry, but though I'd appreciate more options here or there, I also disagree with this statement a lot.

Most of games that have far greater amount of customization do so by means of sliders, usually. As an end result...many caricatures are made. If I had to make a choice between a game with very few options and a game where caricatures can be made and everything else is equal, you can be 100% certain that I will pick the fewer options. I cannot make the "best looking character", but then again, I won't be surrounded by horrid abominations that some players find entertaining.
The major reason why I completely turn off names of characters in every MMO I play (if possible) is because players choose stuff that doesn't sound remotely name-like in any language possible. IamSupaMan, IOwnYou, EatMyDust and similar stuff is not names. But names I can turn off...characters themselves I cannot.

A character creator that both gives a lot of freedom and prevents making of caricatures would be like making a game in itself. The amount of work that'd have to come into it would be immense. So since that's not a possibility...a game with creator that have more limited options is actually better than a game that gives free reign. And this is also a reason that the developers of FFXIV don't see significant changes to the creator as high in priority list. They don't want these ridiculous designs either, something they DID actually state themselves, for the immersion breaking nature of that.

This particular thread was more focused on providing more ethnic looking options. New faces/facial features aren't going to hurt anyone, and more options in this manner would only be a plus (assuming the servers can survive). Going through this thread, you'll find several people who seem adamantly against adding new faces/features for reasons.

In regards to sliders, they can be tweaked to not allow extreme options. We already have a few sliders in this game and they're all tastefully done. As mentioned before GW2 utilizes the pre-set face options like XIV does, although they have sliders for eyes/noses/mouth/etc. You can make slightly questionable characters there if you try hard enough, but they are also far more toned down than other slider-games. That would be completely within the control of the developer.

But with all that said, I was just suggesting more faces/facial features. I don't see SE doing a complete overhaul of their character creator.

[Midori_Nabooru]

I think the issue with the thread is how the OP presented it. Rather than coming off as a "race war" it could have been a "suggestion" thread. I understand where they are coming from, but the execution of it is rather abrasive. The darker skin tones are odd, but not completely unusable to make a dark/deep skin-toned character, to represent themselves or culture if that's their wish to do so. Keeping in mind this is a fantasy game.
However, it has already been said there will not be changes made to the creator section any time soon. They do however add hairstyles often. A post suggesting hairstyles, probably would have been better received, with maybe some examples of what you would like to see. I do think some of the requests would be difficult to implement in the game, as judging by the "afro" which is a mess. I would love to see curly/kinky options, but the physics/textures would probably not work well with however they currently design hair.

[MaloraYuki]

I think the issue with the thread is how the OP presented it. Rather than coming off as a "race war" it could have been a "suggestion" thread. I understand where they are coming from, but the execution of it is rather abrasive. The darker skin tones are odd, but not completely unusable to make a dark/deep skin-toned character, to represent themselves or culture if that's their wish to do so. Keeping in mind this is a fantasy game.
However, it has already been said there will not be changes made to the creator section any time soon. They do however add hairstyles often. A post suggesting hairstyles, probably would have been better received, with maybe some examples of what you would like to see. I do think some of the requests would be difficult to implement in the game, as judging by the "afro" which is a mess. I would love to see curly/kinky options, but the physics/textures would probably not work well with however they currently design hair.

Totally agree but it came off as a race war which is unneeded. It’s not a race issue it’s a character creator issue. Why label things black and white in a game that that’s not the “race”

[Melichoir]

All 'races' in FFXIV are mix and matches of features in real world races with an anime slant, and are not designed to be a direct representation of any single particular race. You can pretty much get this by actually looking at the stock facial features (ignore skin color for the moment) of the races and even with tweaking, you cant get a 1:1 "this is an European/Asian/African/Etc" person. You can get close, but things will be slightly off or 'mismatched'. Now, throw in the fact that virtually all races can come in the almost entire gamut of skin colors, and you can end up with interesting combinations as a result. You can drive this point home by looking at teh lore of all the races. You cant really pin it to any specific ethnicity/nationality. Theyre all mixes of a few cultural elements from different societies.

Im down for more hairstyles, but the assertion there's a 'race' issue is simply a case of "looking for racism." If they had teh standard 'Nordic Male/Female', 'Asian male/female', and etc except African, yeah then you got a case. But since theyre mix and matched features (again beyond skin color cause a black person isnt just black skin), that are also reigned in by a style that anime-in-nature, yeah, its not an issue of race so much as just a lack of options. Something people are all for. People want more hairstyles.

[Magic-Mal]

Why won't we talk about what OP is ACTUALLY asking for instead of completely dodging the request by harping on this "race war" stuff. It's irrelevant, and it doesn't help or support anything she's asking for. 13 pages in and we haven't gotten anywhere talking about something stupid.

Like the Big butt thing this isn't Earth stop projecting Earthly qualities on the charaters. Ya they come close but it doesn't make it earth.

There are no Elveens, Au Ra, Miqo'te IRL...

As for more customizations they have said they aren't changing it.

Yeah except when it's about getting bigger butts everyone is for it and feel it's needed. And the request gets over 80 likes overnight.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Why won't we talk about what OP is ACTUALLY asking for instead of completely dodging the request by harping on this "race war" stuff. It's irrelevant, and it doesn't help or support anything she's asking for. 13 pages in and we haven't gotten anywhere talking about something stupid.


Yeah except when it's about getting bigger butts everyone is for it and feel it's needed. And the request gets over 80 likes overnight.

The OP started it by saying character creation has a race problem. That is the topic title.

I'm also not for bigger butts, I think thats a dumb request.

More customization = good. Making the devs seem racist and saying they shouldnt market the game outside Japan because a Hyur doesn't have every racial feature = bad.