DPS Enmity controls

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That's not fair. Half of them are garbage.

Shh, don't say that out loud. The devs still think they're useful!

[aqskerorokero]

You do have grit...

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

You do have grit...

Which locks out 20% of damage dealt, blocks superior MP gain from Bloodweapon (which in return can be more superior mitigation via TBN) and is slow to activate if you are forced to use it in the middle of the fight due to costing a GCD action. And this all because a Dps has the nerve to not use their oGCD enmity tools which cost them almost nothing.

[vVAstrAVv]

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

If you have aggro issues and care about dps so much drop drk and play war
Or play a dps heeey thats a good idea
Either way. No real right to complain.

Btw
Grit would actually give you better mp management because it doubles siphons mp
Each siphon with be a dark arts with it on rather than drying out with BW on cooldown

[Megguido]

[...]

Btw
Grit would actually give you better mp management because it doubles siphons mp
Each siphon with be a dark arts with it on rather than drying out with BW on cooldown

Aaaaand that's wrong. Syphon Strike sure gives twice as much MP during Grit, but it locks you out of Blood Weapon (and Delirium Blood Weapon). BW shortens the GCD, which means more Syphon Strikes, more mana per hit.

The bonus mana on Syphon is there just to compensate the fact DRK is locked out of BW during Grit, else we would just starve on mana.

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

If you have aggro issues and care about dps so much drop drk and play war

Two things are important to consider here:
- First, it's not hard to match or even exceed an average Duty Finder DPS in expert roulette when playing a tank, so aggro isn't remotely an issue during a boss pull.
- Second, DRK's MT opener generates a stupid amount of threat, close to the equivalent of a melee LB3. And WAR's damage output is nowhere near any DPS damage output at equivalent skill level. Stop calling WAR the DPS tank when it's barely 5% higher than PLD and DRK.

A tank doesn't care about the DPS pressing Diversion or not against a dungeon boss. What is really bothering is when the DPS is not pressing Diversion in a raiding environment, because it costs damage and ressources to the tank just to compensate the fact the DPS is too lazy to press one more button every 120 seconds.

[Dzian]

The DPS roles lose literally *nothing* in order to use their enmity tools. They are all instant cast OGCDs with zero impact in their rotation. Some DPS can even directly dump their aggro if the situation requires it (Lucid Dreaming, Elusive Jump,... etc).

That's incorrect. If a sam uses merciful eyes instead of seigan. That's a loss of 200 potency.

Apparently monk is in a similar position it's enmity dump is a dps loss. As it eats chakras or something

[Megguido]

That's incorrect. If a sam uses merciful eyes instead of seigan. That's a loss of 200 potency.

Apparently monk is in a similar position it's enmity dump is a dps loss. As it eats chakras or something

That's also incorrect. Seigan is 200 potency but requires both open eyes and 15 kenki. Seigan is a slight DPS gain over Shinten (13.3 potency/kenki for Seigan instead of 12 for Shinten). It's less than 30 potency lost. Dunno for MNK though.

I think Lilyth's point was mostly about Diversion, which costs nothing but a role skill slot, and reduces a lot the aggro needed from the tanks. And if tanks don't have to use tank stance and threat combos, it's a raidDPS gain.

[Kabooa]

That's incorrect. If a sam uses merciful eyes instead of seigan. That's a loss of 200 potency.

Apparently monk is in a similar position it's enmity dump is a dps loss. As it eats chakras or something

Seigan is trash.

[Aana]

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

If you have aggro issues and care about dps so much drop drk and play war
Or play a dps heeey thats a good idea
Either way. No real right to complain.

Btw
Grit would actually give you better mp management because it doubles siphons mp
Each siphon with be a dark arts with it on rather than drying out with BW on cooldown

Hit diversion. It costs dps ZERO dps and increases a tanks DPS. If a DPS's job is 'DPS 1st' then hit diversion. Your group gains DPS. If you cant hit 1 button every 2 min you cant play a DPS effectively. You suck as a DPS if you cant hit diversion and hurt your team for no gain. There is no rational reason to refuse to control your enmity when you have a 1 button OGCD cure-all built into the game.

You have no excuse to have enmity problems as long as diversion exists. Use it.

[Gemina]

I am under the mindset that another's player's negligence does not pardon your own. If DPS and healers are not using their enmity dumps, does this make it ok for a tank to remain in DPS stance and not use their enmity tools because you know?... reasons? I am not going to argue that non-tank roles not utilizing their enmity dumps makes for a less optimal party composition. This is indisputable. However, what is also indisputable is while non-tank roles have at most two skills to shave enmity, tanks have several means to build it quickly, and even instantly take it with provoke and ultimatum.

What I am getting at here, are the gripes I hear from tanks and healers when forced to do their role. We can finger point all day at DPS and healers not using their enmity reducers, but if hate is all over the place, trust me, the first person I am going to look at is the tank. Each and every time unless someone is deliberately doing something stupid like spamming medica, which even in PUGs is a rare occurrence from my experience.

In short, just like when I am healing; I am not going to rely on other players to make my job as tanking easier. ESPECIALLY IN PUGs! The issue of the OP is a direct result of him/her trying to push out as much DPS as possible. This is not a bad thing... until you lose agro. When this happens, no one is going to get looked at or questioned more than the tank.

Optimization should always be strived for regardless of content. I truly believe this. However, sometimes optimization only goes as far as adaptation, meaning your own ability to DPS as tank or healer while still performing your role is held back due to the ineptness of your party. It sucks because you know you are capable of much more, but it is not an excuse to forego your primary role whether it be tanking or healing. If you need to hard cast cures, DO IT! If you need to go back into tank stance, DO IT! It really is as simple as that because I am never going to blame a DPS player for wanting to cause more damage. But I will blame a healer or tank with the same desire.