DPS Enmity controls

[SiriusSaltstice]

This is exactly how I feel when I see threads talking about how trash tankstance is.

It isn't trash. It's just not needed. You dont need to be in it 24/7 once you know how to mitigate a boss's attacks. Likewise, if everyone equally does their part in managing aggro, tanks dont need the additional hate gen from tank stance. Its great for learning a fight and when shit hits the fan, but after that, its unnecessary.

[Lilyth]

Snip.

Read my post again. I've never said Purification/Third Eye didn't cost anything to their respective jobs to use. Actually, these two specific abilities' additional effects were only recently added into the game, and obviously they do have a cost. But I was not referring to them.

What I actually said is that all DPS have access to aggro management tools that do *not* cost them anything. Also known as Diversion, which is ridiculously OP right now.
The only real exception to this are BRD and MCH who only have Tactician and Refresh as their enmity tools, both which actually have beneficial effects to the group and could be necessary in a specific point in the fight. However, as of now, that's not the case in any fight in the game for Tactician. Not to mention how ridiculously hard it is to TP starve at level 70, even after dying. It's more than safe to say that you can at least rely on Tactician, and even Refresh, to drop aggro.

Also, monks can make use of Purification in a fight without losing any dps if the boss jumps long enough for them to gather 10 chakras. Same for DRG and Elusive Jump.

The bottom line is very clear here, enmity management is a party responsability. Nobody is expecting the Samurai or the Monk nor anyone to go out of their way and play bad just so the Tanks can be trololo lazy and stay on DPS stance. What people are expecting though, is that you do the bare minimum. Press the small and sparkly green button that costs nothing every time it comes off CD, and everyone will be happy.

[Aana]

Read my post again. I've never said Purification/Third Eye didn't cost anything to their respective jobs to use. Actually, these two specific abilities' additional effects were only recently added into the game, and obviously they do have a cost. But I was not referring to them.

What I actually said is that all DPS have access to aggro management tools that do *not* cost them anything. Also known as Diversion, which is ridiculously OP right now.
The only real exception to this are BRD and MCH who only have Tactician and Refresh as their enmity tools, both which actually have beneficial effects to the group and could be necessary in a specific point in the fight. However, as of now, that's not the case in any fight in the game for Tactician. Not to mention how ridiculously hard it is to TP starve at level 70, even after dying. It's more than safe to say that you can at least rely on Tactician, and even Refresh, to drop aggro.

Also, monks can make use of Purification in a fight without losing any dps if the boss jumps long enough for them to gather 10 chakras. Same for DRG and Elusive Jump.

The bottom line is very clear here, enmity management is a party responsability. Nobody is expecting the Samurai or the Monk nor anyone to go out of their way and play bad just so the Tanks can be trololo lazy and stay on DPS stance. What people are expecting though, is that you do the bare minimal. Press the small and sparkly green button that costs nothing every time it comes off CD, and everyone will be happy.

Basically this.

Everyone should use their EZGG enmity tools they have available. Push 1 button, NINETY PERCENT enmity reduction during your opener (and basically on CD after that) does wonders for enmity control. If you dont do that, your bad and pulling down your team, period. No excuses for any job with diversion. None. You can piddle around complaining about 3rd eye all you want, but you have diversion, so use it.

That said, in an organized group Tank stance is purely a pulling tool and defensive tool. No organized group needs tank stance because DPS are puling their weight on enmity, ninja's are smokescreening whm, both tanks are shirking, etc.

However when I go into a pug I assume everyone sucks (because most do) and watch the enmity bar. If im getting crept up on I ask for a shirk. If OT is unresponsive then I drop two Defiance/unchained butchers combo on its face and coast to victory and take one for the PUG. PUGS are not statics and you often have to do everything yourself. Or you can be a stick in the mud, wipe, whine at the party for sucking. You might even be right, but being right is irrelevant cuz you put your pride and epeen above victory and now you have to spend more time with this terrible pug or watch it ragequit. Who's really the looser there? You and your time. Congrats. Pugs=knock that chip off your shoulder and do what you need to do in order to win and move on with your life. If you want to 'be right' more than 'win' then come post on the forums, not join pugs.

[Immortalizd]

It’s easy.. do lore hate combos!! Your role is to keep hate not dps, so doing 1 hate combo and then only dps is asking for issues, why? Cause a dps’s job is to ONLY dps, we did get 20% enmity reduction with each 3rd eye proc.. but doesn’t mean a dps will use it,, same issue, to worried about dps vs what’s best for the whole team.. a good tank uses extra hate combos vs worrying about his dps, a good dps uses skills to reduce enmity to allow tanks to dps more.. it’s a team thing and MURICAN players are only me me me.

[Ruf]

I know it's because you want to maximize DPS, but there is quite some irony in a tank who isn't using tank stance or his enmity combo complaining about others not using their enmity tools...

F o r r e a l .

[Jukebox12]

[QUOTE=Immortalizd;4736408]It’s easy../QUOTE]
Our job as tank is to keep the boss punching us in the face and slapping right back if the dps cannot keep there face getting punch let them get punch.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It’s easy.. do lore hate combos!! Your role is to keep hate not dps, so doing 1 hate combo and then only dps is asking for issues, why? Cause a dps’s job is to ONLY dps, we did get 20% enmity reduction with each 3rd eye proc.. but doesn’t mean a dps will use it,, same issue, to worried about dps vs what’s best for the whole team.. a good tank uses extra hate combos vs worrying about his dps, a good dps uses skills to reduce enmity to allow tanks to dps more.. it’s a team thing and MURICAN players are only me me me.

One hate combo won't be enough to hold off a Samurai doing decent damage but electing not to use Diversion. The tank will be forced back into tank stance, which is a substantial loss to the raid as they're now throwing away free damage all because that Samurai was too lazy to press one button. Teamwork goes both ways. In your scenario, if you have a stubborn DPS not using Diversion, it's better to simply replace them with someone more willing to be a team player. Enmity is no longer just a tank's job, but a party's job. If the DPS aren't controlling their aggro, they're demanding the tank adjust for them.

[Hierro]

One hate combo won't be enough to hold off a Samurai doing decent damage but electing not to use Diversion.

I'm hard-pressed to believe a decent samurai WON'T have diversion built into their opener, leading me to believe such a player to be a non-factor like the rest of non-diversion using players.

[Lilyth]

I'm hard-pressed to believe a decent samurai WON'T have diversion built into their opener, leading me to believe such a player to be a non-factor like the rest of non-diversion using players.

Oh trust me, they are out there. You don't need to be that skilled to pull off good numbers as a Samurai. In fact, gear Ilvl is a big factor here. A player with a 370 weapon + basic rotation knowledge (i.e. keeps their GCD rolling) in a scenario where there is no Voke + Shirk helping the MT, will most likely pull aggro off of them unless they are kind enough to adjust to this particular DPS lazyness.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm hard-pressed to believe a decent samurai WON'T have diversion built into their opener, leading me to believe such a player to be a non-factor like the rest of non-diversion using players.

You would be amazed. Just last night, I had both a BLM and RDM nipping my heels because either used Diversion or Lucid until I basically let them have Kefka (Normal). Which segues into another common occurrence I see; DPS using Diversion once they take aggro or are just about to. This makes it entirely useless since Diversion is a suppressor, not a dump. So long as you have a decent idea of how the job works, like Lilyth said, you will generate enough aggro to catch the tank, especially if their co-tank isn't Shirking or you're running content where that isn't possible.