DPS Enmity controls

[Dzian]

The DPS roles lose literally *nothing* in order to use their enmity tools. They are all instant cast OGCDs with zero impact in their rotation. Some DPS can even directly dump their aggro if the situation requires it (Lucid Dreaming, Elusive Jump,... etc).

That's incorrect. If a sam uses merciful eyes instead of seigan. That's a loss of 200 potency.

Apparently monk is in a similar position it's enmity dump is a dps loss. As it eats chakras or something

[Megguido]

That's incorrect. If a sam uses merciful eyes instead of seigan. That's a loss of 200 potency.

Apparently monk is in a similar position it's enmity dump is a dps loss. As it eats chakras or something

That's also incorrect. Seigan is 200 potency but requires both open eyes and 15 kenki. Seigan is a slight DPS gain over Shinten (13.3 potency/kenki for Seigan instead of 12 for Shinten). It's less than 30 potency lost. Dunno for MNK though.

I think Lilyth's point was mostly about Diversion, which costs nothing but a role skill slot, and reduces a lot the aggro needed from the tanks. And if tanks don't have to use tank stance and threat combos, it's a raidDPS gain.

[Kabooa]

That's incorrect. If a sam uses merciful eyes instead of seigan. That's a loss of 200 potency.

Apparently monk is in a similar position it's enmity dump is a dps loss. As it eats chakras or something

Seigan is trash.

[Gemina]

I am under the mindset that another's player's negligence does not pardon your own. If DPS and healers are not using their enmity dumps, does this make it ok for a tank to remain in DPS stance and not use their enmity tools because you know?... reasons? I am not going to argue that non-tank roles not utilizing their enmity dumps makes for a less optimal party composition. This is indisputable. However, what is also indisputable is while non-tank roles have at most two skills to shave enmity, tanks have several means to build it quickly, and even instantly take it with provoke and ultimatum.

What I am getting at here, are the gripes I hear from tanks and healers when forced to do their role. We can finger point all day at DPS and healers not using their enmity reducers, but if hate is all over the place, trust me, the first person I am going to look at is the tank. Each and every time unless someone is deliberately doing something stupid like spamming medica, which even in PUGs is a rare occurrence from my experience.

In short, just like when I am healing; I am not going to rely on other players to make my job as tanking easier. ESPECIALLY IN PUGs! The issue of the OP is a direct result of him/her trying to push out as much DPS as possible. This is not a bad thing... until you lose agro. When this happens, no one is going to get looked at or questioned more than the tank.

Optimization should always be strived for regardless of content. I truly believe this. However, sometimes optimization only goes as far as adaptation, meaning your own ability to DPS as tank or healer while still performing your role is held back due to the ineptness of your party. It sucks because you know you are capable of much more, but it is not an excuse to forego your primary role whether it be tanking or healing. If you need to hard cast cures, DO IT! If you need to go back into tank stance, DO IT! It really is as simple as that because I am never going to blame a DPS player for wanting to cause more damage. But I will blame a healer or tank with the same desire.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

So first off a tank instantly getting aggro back after losing it, by using provoke and ultimatum is bull, as it only gives +1 aggro over the next aggro lead so in an aggro creep scenario is absolutely pointless.
With the exception of WAR the other two tanks require one GCD to enter tank stance which sets aggro recovery back by a GCD, and if mid combo, there is further delay for aggro generation unless the tank uses out of combo aggro skill or have some aggro generation oGCDs skills ready to use. Even at that aggro generated at this point is pretty negligible to the point of needing to spam aggro combo a few times in some cases before it'll give an effective aggro lead.
In my experience most aggro creeps happen for 1 or 2 thing, the main tank dies lack of heals or CDs or just random stuff, so as OT need to pick up hate if I'm not second already, and second reason is mid combat DPS ain't using their tools for aggro.
Also disagree heavily with you opinion of it's squarely on the tank for aggro management, like DPSing and many other party synergies, aggro management is party effort no excuses around it. Just press your damn 120second CD every time it's off cooldown it won't kill you.

[Lyth]

Enmity management isn't designed as a tanking challenge. There is no question of "easier" or "harder". It's a question of whether players are pressing buttons when they should be. More often than not, it comes down to knowledge the fight script including when things like adds spawn.

You could compensate for a dps who refuses to use enmity cooldowns properly. Are you going to want to continue to group with them? Probably not. To be honest, I'm yet to see a competent dps who doesn't use enmity reduction tools, so if they're struggling to press the button, they're probably struggling elsewhere as well.

You could try to compensate for a tank who refuses to use defensive cooldowns properly and complains about the lack of healing when they die. Are you going to want to continue to group with them? Probably not.

There are some things that are classically treated as tank, healer, or dps responsibilities, but at the end of the day, this is a team game, and everyone has to do their part to clear the encounter.