DPS Enmity controls

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Using diversion also cost you one role action slot. You have to choose do you wanna use lucid for mana, swiftcast for mobility or instaraise, addle for aoe mitigation or dps, apoc for tank busters, manashift for healers or bard foe, surecast preventing kncokbacks etc. You dont really wanna use diversion and sacrifice one of these skills if it is not 100% demanded.

Players utilizing those skills typically know how to manage Lucid/Diversion enough where they don't need both. In dungeons, you will never need apoc or addle since those bosses barely tickle half the time. In full party settings, there is no scenario where forcing a tank into tank stance is a rDPS gain. In fact, it's an overall loss even if it means you lose a GCD. That's how bad tank stance is, and why tanks avoid it like the plague. Even with that all said, there isn't a fight where you wouldn't slot Diversion and/or Lucid. And you should time your Lucid uses around your aggro not your MP. In fact, it's far better to use Lucid when you're at 80% MP because it won't tick fast enough to cap, provided you're actively DPSing. The only two jobs who have any argument about not managing aggro are Bard and Machinist, because they have to be mindful of blowing a party resource. Samurai and Black Mage? No, they have options. And if you're to lazy to use them, well, the tank's patience determines if you live or not.

It also depends on class. SMN pet is doing big part of your dps and pet have separated enmity generation compared to your main character. So you theoretically do like 25% less enmity all of the time. Even for world first UwU kill summoner did not use diversion.

He did, however, use Lucid. Bear in mind, Ultimate is a poor example, especially WF prog. Everyone plays safe then because the objective is the first kill. You also have to consider each Primal and Ultima all have aggro resets. Therefore, the Warrior will always have an Unchained + Equilibrium opener ready. As the Primals are roughly three minute fights with multiple jump phases and adds in the case of Garuda and Ifrit, there isn't nearly the same aggro creep as you'd see in say, Demon Chadarnook. Not to mention, you have a Ninja rotating Shadewalker and Smokescreen.

Tanks in Ultimate aren't using tank stance for aggro reasons, they're using it live because stuff actually hurts. And you can't cheese mechanics like you can in Savage.

[Azbroolah]

Using diversion also cost you one role action slot. You have to choose do you wanna use lucid for mana, swiftcast for mobility or instaraise, addle for aoe mitigation or dps, apoc for tank busters, manashift for healers or bard foe, surecast preventing kncokbacks etc. You dont really wanna use diversion and sacrifice one of these skills if it is not 100% demanded.

A player who cares enough about teamwork to consistently use Apocatastasis or Addle will know when they need to use Diversion. I highly doubt any of the people in this thread arguing against using Diversion have ever touched any of those role actions. Also, Lucid is an enmity dump in addition to Mana regen.

[aqskerorokero]

You do have grit...

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

You do have grit...

Which locks out 20% of damage dealt, blocks superior MP gain from Bloodweapon (which in return can be more superior mitigation via TBN) and is slow to activate if you are forced to use it in the middle of the fight due to costing a GCD action. And this all because a Dps has the nerve to not use their oGCD enmity tools which cost them almost nothing.

[vVAstrAVv]

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

If you have aggro issues and care about dps so much drop drk and play war
Or play a dps heeey thats a good idea
Either way. No real right to complain.

Btw
Grit would actually give you better mp management because it doubles siphons mp
Each siphon with be a dark arts with it on rather than drying out with BW on cooldown

[Megguido]

[...]

Btw
Grit would actually give you better mp management because it doubles siphons mp
Each siphon with be a dark arts with it on rather than drying out with BW on cooldown

Aaaaand that's wrong. Syphon Strike sure gives twice as much MP during Grit, but it locks you out of Blood Weapon (and Delirium Blood Weapon). BW shortens the GCD, which means more Syphon Strikes, more mana per hit.

The bonus mana on Syphon is there just to compensate the fact DRK is locked out of BW during Grit, else we would just starve on mana.

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

If you have aggro issues and care about dps so much drop drk and play war

Two things are important to consider here:
- First, it's not hard to match or even exceed an average Duty Finder DPS in expert roulette when playing a tank, so aggro isn't remotely an issue during a boss pull.
- Second, DRK's MT opener generates a stupid amount of threat, close to the equivalent of a melee LB3. And WAR's damage output is nowhere near any DPS damage output at equivalent skill level. Stop calling WAR the DPS tank when it's barely 5% higher than PLD and DRK.

A tank doesn't care about the DPS pressing Diversion or not against a dungeon boss. What is really bothering is when the DPS is not pressing Diversion in a raiding environment, because it costs damage and ressources to the tank just to compensate the fact the DPS is too lazy to press one more button every 120 seconds.

[Deceptus]

Stop calling WAR the DPS tank when it's barely 5% higher than PLD and DRK.

So we can't call the highest dps tank the "DPS Tank"?

Thinking.jpg

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

Major contradiction. If we're talking dungeon bosses, Lucid and Tactician shouldn't be needed for anything BUT aggro dumps. If you're having mana issues or TP issues on a boss, you're doing something VERY wrong.

[Aana]

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

If you have aggro issues and care about dps so much drop drk and play war
Or play a dps heeey thats a good idea
Either way. No real right to complain.

Btw
Grit would actually give you better mp management because it doubles siphons mp
Each siphon with be a dark arts with it on rather than drying out with BW on cooldown

Hit diversion. It costs dps ZERO dps and increases a tanks DPS. If a DPS's job is 'DPS 1st' then hit diversion. Your group gains DPS. If you cant hit 1 button every 2 min you cant play a DPS effectively. You suck as a DPS if you cant hit diversion and hurt your team for no gain. There is no rational reason to refuse to control your enmity when you have a 1 button OGCD cure-all built into the game.

You have no excuse to have enmity problems as long as diversion exists. Use it.

[Wake90]

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

If you have aggro issues and care about dps so much drop drk and play war
Or play a dps heeey thats a good idea
Either way. No real right to complain.

This to some extent.

First priority as a tank is to hold a standard of aggro then look to fit in DPS to the rotation. A tank who can't hold aggro doesn't know what they're doing or is in over there head and should be given some hand-holding by their teammates.

Who promised tanks they would be able to focus on damage instead of threat? Maybe tanking isn't the OP's thing, and they should switch.

Other members shouldn't have high threat for their damage output, and they should take steps to mitigate their threat, but it's the tanks job to hold a high standard. Call people out for not playing their character right and trying to run up their threat levels, but generally a tank should hold a high standard of threat to make it difficult for DPS to overstep their bounds.

[Sunspawn]

Are we talking dungeon bosses here?

Youre a freaking tank
Emnity first dps second

And vice versa for the dps
Noones gonna waste tactition or lucid cus poor baby cant provoke

I'd rather Shirk you to help you dump ALL of your enmity. I am playing optimally by being in dps stance after my opener and expect you to do the same by using your enmity drop tools as intended.