HoH feedback

[HyoMinPark]

Feedback regarding sack loot: You know, if they have to put in little temporary silly loot like confetti and sparklers, why not make it something more fun? Say a glamour that turns you into the odder otter that the traps do, but say it lasts 5 minutes?

That, or they could put those Empyrean Sustain Potions in there.

[ThunderGodThor]

God forbid, we allow something to have some kind of challenge and/or take some kind of time in this game.

I’m tired of seeing everyone demand things be easier for them because they don’t want to put forth time or effort for things.

Yup, pretty much this. People can't complete it so they want the fun took away from those of us who can instead of actually improving enough to do it themselves.

[Vnolan]

Thats a QoL feature that has 0 impact on the content from a challange point, unless you consider it a challange to repeatedly click a text box.

The relic and the glamour is a grind. Being able to convert multiple crystals at once nerfs that grind.

then you can just play it fast and loose if it goes back down to 80.

You mention 80 again when no one has suggested that far in.

Or inversely, if the content isnt passable without the pomanders, then having a lvl 80 tier would be a moot point. They would have to implement chest changes at those higher tiers for them to be functional.

PoTD and HoH are not balanced at all. Check out the solo scores for each job.

Just let me start at Ultimate modes.

The floors before ultimate are easy, even without a full party?

The examples you have provided are completely unrelated.

Both waste time for no reason.

they aren’t the same thing. That’s a true QoL feature; allowing later starts in HoH or even PotD is not—it’s just something that negates the challenge of the content: the challenge is the gauntlet, and the incentive to not wipe, or otherwise you start all over. It’s not threatening to wipe on Floor 97 if I can start on Floor 61 or 81.

God forbid, we allow something to have some kind of challenge and/or take some kind of time in this game.

I’m tired of seeing everyone demand things be easier for them because they don’t want to put forth time or effort for things.

"The entire point of the relic is a grind. Being able to turn in multiple crystals at once takes away that grind. God forbid we allow something to have some kind of grind or take some kind of time in this game. I’m tired of seeing everyone demand things be easier for them because they don’t want to put forth time or effort for things."

With the crystals, if you wanted to turn them in one by one to augment the challenge you perceive, you could still do it.

That, or they could put those Empyrean Sustain Potions in there.

Says people should stop asking for nerfs to time investment to reach the interesting content because it offends them, then goes on to ask for a similar nerf (would reduce the number of 21-30 runs).

Yup, pretty much this. People can't complete it so they want the fun took away from those of us who can instead of actually improving enough to do it themselves.

How is the fun taken away if the option is still there? If you only find it fun if everyone else has to do it the same way, that's on you.

[KaivaC]

"The entire point of the relic is a grind. Being able to turn in multiple crystals at once takes away that grind. God forbid we allow something to have some kind of grind or take some kind of time in this game. I’m tired of seeing everyone demand things be easier for them because they don’t want to put forth time or effort for things."

With the crystals, if you wanted to turn them in one by one to augment the challenge you perceive, you could still do it.

Are you seriously suggesting that opening several hundred Anemos lootboxes one at a time should've stayed included because it's part of the grind?

...Boi, what?

[HyoMinPark]

Says people should stop asking for nerfs to time investment to reach the interesting content because it offends them, then goes on to ask for a similar nerf (would reduce the number of 21-30 runs).

Care to point out where I said I was “offended”? I said I was annoyed that people demand everything be easier because they don’t want to put in time or effort for things. And I don’t see how adding in Sustaining potions to sacks is a “nerf”; people would still run HoH 21-30 to level alt jobs anyways—they aren’t running those for the potsherds typically.

"The entire point of the relic is a grind. Being able to turn in multiple crystals at once takes away that grind. God forbid we allow something to have some kind of grind or take some kind of time in this game. I’m tired of seeing everyone demand things be easier for them because they don’t want to put forth time or effort for things.”

Thank you for agreeing that things should take more time. I’m glad we finally agree that the challenge floors’ start should remain at Floor 21.

[Keridwyn]

Personally I'm enjoying HoH. It's content I can pick up and do a little of or, if the stars align, I can do a lot of. Now that it's been out a few days sure I'm encountering the people who are on their last weapon and just want to go go go through anything and everything (which was what eventually drove me away from matched party PoD) but for the most part most groups are still willing to investigate for things and open all the chests.

That said, let me take a moment to address the two main complaints I've found in this thread, firstly the start point.

I don't think it's unreasonable to start at floor 21. My group is probably the worst at scheduling. We are so varied, none of us have the same days off, none of us match up our working hours, there are very narrow windows of opportunity for us to get our Deep Dungeon on so when we all do sit down we try to consume everything in one giant bite. I cannot tell you how many wipes this has resulted in because it's suddenly two in the morning and we make a mental fatigue mistake that ends everything. Or we don't get the Poms we need. Or we get unlucky and trigger double luring traps on floor 160+. I digress. My point is that with only 80 floors to climb we are all pumped. That's a whole 70 floors less previously. That means we might get two attempts per session instead of one. They already cut the entire deep dungeon in half and they cut the number of floors you need to clear from the last 'checkpoint' in half too.

Secondly, on the loot bags.

Yes, please just stop with the confetti. No more confetti in bags. If you really, really, really feel the need to give us confetti then give us a token we can exchange for X bags of the confetti/prism of our choice. What I think would be far more practical and at least useful for the 'dud' bags is to give us elemental shards, crystals, and clusters respectively. Crafters can always use more and those that don't craft can always just stick them on the MB. It's not like these aren't a reward in other content, you can get them from maps after all, and as long as it's not some massive number...what's the issue? Also, what is so wrong with giving out crafter/gatherer materia in some of these bags? Lastly, how about some useful demimaterias instead of just the 'vendor for gil' clear ones, maybe even unique ones that could be used to craft unique items in the future? Any and all of these would be better additions to the bags than confetti.

I hope this was a useful addition to the conversation.

[Ryaz]

Are you seriously suggesting that opening several hundred Anemos lootboxes one at a time should've stayed included because it's part of the grind?

...Boi, what?

That was my reaction. Apparently, some people are so masochistic or set on extending the grind time that even pushing a button 500 times instead of 100 times gives them joy. I'm all for a grind to earn something, but clicking a button should not be factored into that grind at all. A grind is fine, a mindless grind is not. The only other thing I can think of is they get some sense of accomplishment from doing monotonous tasks longer than anyone else can tolerate them.

And for the record, I think the grind in HoH is fine.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

Been running potd for a long time 8 or so wins, now doing hoh with same static. We won 80 and 90 on 2 slots so prolly 100 win soon enough.

To give feedback, do not increase the level to enter. Potd and HoHs biggest + is the rush you get from clearing a floor while having the risk to go back.

Finding a team that does 20>100 in 2-3 goes isnt hard either.

That being said the luck factor in 80-90 is rough. 5 mimics in a row and another 4 monster traps qq all the nice pomander.

Bosses are simple especially the lv 80 one left us confused and waiting for a real mechanic.

It really comes down to floor luck and respecting each monster and its skills.

We have not see a single odin magicite, is there a requirement? Or really just luck.

[Vnolan]

Are you seriously suggesting that opening several hundred Anemos lootboxes one at a time should've stayed included because it's part of the grind?

...Boi, what?

Not at all. I'm using an absurd pov for the crystals to highlight how off some of the arguments are here.

I can reign it in a bit: Cooldowns resetting on wipe. It only mattered in savage and EX. It supposedly added to the difficulty since it punished you for wiping, but in reality all it did was waste people's time. "Oh goodie, we have to wait a few minutes to pull because someone accidentally hit an ability with a long cooldown or it's still on cooldown from the last run" - said no one ever. For the newer players, I'm not exaggerating at all here. It used to be your abilities did not reset if you wiped. Anyone saying they want that to return is lying.

To give feedback, do not increase the level to enter. Potd and HoHs biggest + is the rush you get from clearing a floor while having the risk to go back.

OP isn't asking for a change, but an addition. It wouldn't affect you at all.

Potd and HoHs biggest + is

The loot and exp. Remove those and almost no one would run it.

[Alleo]

This ,just like the story critic, to me is BS, if anything bosses are just as easy, but definitively not easier

Story is subjective. If you liked it thats fine, others can dislike it too. Even someone like Ethys was more like "what" about the story so it can be a good feedback. Can you really argue against that 20 floors more would have given us more story? If it would have been better thats another question and again subjective. We are also had nice cameos with death npcs and their bubble talks while now we have the god animals in there without any reason, while at least it was explained with PotD.

I do feel like bosses are easier for both groups. Edda had fail mechanics that could kill the whole group if people messed up and got hit, while the 30 boss can be done solo if all of the others are dead. (Heck even being low level and hit with three aoes I was still alive in my first run) PotD 100 which was also still a casual boss could kill you outright if you did not have a certain pomander and be run over by too many adds. Boss 80 had no single really hurtful special attack and everything else could be easily healed. The only hard thing on the higher floors are the group of monsters in 81+ because they are one hits if you mess up their rotations but that was already the case with PotD. But now with the new pomanders this has gotten easier too (if you have them, but RNG is probably the hardest part in this). I mean people already cleared this on the first or second day. So yes for me this is not really hardcore anymore (only solo or with only two players).

About Ultimate: Its kinda funny that you talk about that since the first Ultimate also took longer and yet people complained about this and the shortened the next fight. And lets not forget that Ultimate itself takes around the same time like one 21-30 run. Lets talk more about Neo-Exdeath. Why does the savage fight start at this one again if you wipe? Shouldnt they just start the fight from the very beginning again? Yet there its fine, even though the time for each fight itself is much less than any deep dungoen run. (And I did see that you mentioned that as not nice either, but at least I never saw a thread here that stated that people dislike it, so seemingly its mostly fine with the savage fighters)

Again I am not saying that we should have a save point after each 10 floors. But 50/50 in HoH which the starting point at 51 would have made it much more interesting for me because the harder floors starts later anyway and if they had the 1-100 in PotD and started 101+ which each run it would have taken some of the grind away that seemingly some of those that challenged these floors complained about. (Suddenly a handful more hours there is bad, but if people want the same for a few more floors in HoH is the worst..x)) This would have changed nothing for the difficulty of the higher floors because you still needed the right pomanders, a good group and still a few hours of time, but it would have taken away those lower floors that are nothing but a grind thats not necessary for hardcore..heck you could even go and say that starting higher could make it harder and more of a challenge because you cant gather the pomanders in all the lower floors.

Edit: I really hope that those that want this to stay the way like it is now, are not the same that complained that PotD took too long.

And again if someone states that they want x change for y reason (for example start at 51 because it takes too much time otherwise and give the casual crowd more floors too), then its an argument and a reason. Just because you dont like the reason doesnt make it a bad one or none at all. Heck I did ask why its a challenge to even do all the floors before the true challenge starts. Do you really find it a challenge to run from 21-60? Honestly those floors are still good to watch some Lets plays next to playing it or to chat a bit. Wouldnt it be better to start higher but truly have a challenge at those last floors? (Including bosses that cant be one hitted with a certain magicite..)

For me time is not really a challenge, especially if most of time goes for floors that are not even one..Otherwise why not just put in big amounts of trash monsters in savage fights before the boss, that will take their time but are still not really a challenge. And every single time that you wipe on the boss you have to do them again. And I am not meaning enemies like the faust dolls. I mean truly trash mob, that needs a bit of a attention but nothing really a challenge. Would that be good?