Sexual harassment

[BillyKaplan]

Point I am trying to make is people lie, please do not misunderstand what I was trying to say. If something can factually be proven sure witch hunt away, but let us be real how many people honestly would be willing to wait for all the facts to come out before starting the witch hunt?

I'll counter that with a problematic aspect of this - in most situations, specifically of systematic abuse the kind of which that PCGamer article was about, you won't find evidence because the abuser is just that good at keeping themselves clean (unless they're stupid enough to admit it in written chat that can be saved...). Part of it is even being nice and proper with other people, so that when their victim comes clean, they'll have a series of character witnesses lined up to tell everyone how good and just they are. What evidence to wait for then when it's a situation created by the offender to begin with?

[Awha]

I'll counter that with a problematic aspect of this - in most situations, specifically of systematic abuse the kind of which that PCGamer article was about, you won't find evidence because the abuser is just that good at keeping themselves clean. Part of it is even being nice and proper with other people, so that when their victim comes clean, they'll have a series of character witnesses lined up to tell everyone how good and just they are. What evidence to wait for then when it's a situation created by the offender to begin with?

I am not expect on the subject nor an investigator, but I am sure these types of cases take as long as they do to look into due to that very reason. Even so should we really pass judgement without having all the facts? That does not seem messed up in the slightest? Sure it may be a small chance, but what happens if people blindly follow the mob and it turns out the accusations were false that persons life is ruined, and the same could be said vice versa I agree. That is what makes these types of situation difficult, and as community we have the ability to enact switch judgement because we can act on our emotional impulses. Their must be a reason why the authorities do not, it is damning on either side no matter how you cut it. Maybe I am odd, but while I am sympathetic to the victims I do not agree with viewing someone as guilty until proven innocent because it is easier.

The issue is, there's a lot of evidence in this case. Yes people lie. The deaf/voice chat one may just be to avoid questions on why. example: i hate meat, its gross and i dont know why people eat it. After years of just saying i hate meat then getting 50 questions as to why and im just not eating the right kinds or cooking it right, its far easier to just say im a vegetarian. I'm not. It's a lie. There are some meat products I do eat. But I got sick of the 50 questions and saying i'm a vegetarian tends to end up with "oh....ok" instead of more questions. Same can be said for voice chat esp if its because of anxiety or depression.

However that is not what is going on here. Regardless the commentors backgrounds there should be at least a small about of sympathy or empathy to at least understand the situation. Not to immediately discredit it because of "your background" or "it's never happened to me so it never happens" or "everybody lies" kind of thing.

Please do not get me wrong I never discredited the person I am sympathetic to them, as I said might be odd but I am not going to pick a side based off one sides story. I am talking generally about abuse not just this case.

[BillyKaplan]

Their must be a reason why the authorities do not

The authorities likely don't do anything because of the offender's background (white, male, high class, etc), and the most common gender of the victim, which makes them more interested in asking the victim what they wore at the time of the incident than what actually happened.
Also, do keep in mind that for the most part, true offenses will never be a one time thing. That's why so often when one victim comes forward, a string of others follows. The few times I can think of I heard in the news where the accusations were false truly had a single accuser. In the case that brought this thread about, there are numerous victims throwing blame. It's usually a good indicator of how much truth there is to a claim.

[silverlunarfox]

Please do not get me wrong I never discredited the person I am sympathetic to them, as I said might be odd but I am not going to pick a side based off one sides story. I am talking generally about abuse not just this case.

I get you see that, but everyone will see you picked a side by immediately bringing up everybody lies. That will discredit alot of what you try to say after that.

[Awha]

I get you see that, but everyone will see you picked a side by immediately bringing up everybody lies. That will discredit alot of what you try to say after that.

That is a shame, that because I do not follow the mob so to speak I am considered a piece of shit. Not saying that anyone here thinks that, but I do understand that is the light I paint myself in when do give my full support from the start. I do not see reserving judgement as the same of condoning the action, I guess to some it is.

The authorities likely don't do anything because of the offender's background (white, male, high class, etc), and the most common gender of the victim, which makes them more interested in asking the victim what they wore at the time of the incident than what actually happened.
Also, do keep in mind that for the most part, true offenses will never be a one time thing. That's why so often when one victim comes forward, a string of others follows. The few times I can think of I heard in the news where the accusations were false truly had a single accuser. In the case that brought this thread about, there are numerous victims throwing blame. It's usually a good indicator of how much truth there is to a claim.

As you said it is "usually a good indicator" it is not an exact science, that is why I tend to reserve judgement. It just scares me how so many are so quick to pass judgement on someone what has come to light from this case is horrific, but I do not think I will ever be able to get behind applauding or accepting the concept of guilty until proven innocent.

[BillyKaplan]

That is a shame, that because I do not follow the mob so to speak I am considered a piece of shit.

Now you're just hiding behind hyperboles. This thread and its discussion came about under the context of a very specific incident. You can't expect people to dissociate what you say from that context, and you should be mindful of it when you post.

[Awha]

Now you're just hiding behind hyperboles. This thread and its discussion came about under the context of a very specific incident. You can't expect people to dissociate what you say from that context, and you should be mindful of it when you post.

Maybe I am viewing a different thread, I thought this thread was about what could have been done to prevent issues like this from happening not solely about this one issue. As in what could SE or the community have done to protect players from such issues. As such my comment was based around that, generally speaking I will never agree with the concept that is in favor of the the community being the ones to enact judgment on another due to accusation. As I said if it factually prove witch hunt away, but as I mentioned before how many can you really say will not act on their first emotional response? Nor am I hiding behind it, let us be real if your first response they could be lying most people will consider said person an asshole.

Its not about following the mob. You immediately brought up everybody lies, meaning you discredit the victims in this case. It has NOTHING to do with the mob. There is alot of evidence as stated previously, blatant screen captures of what this guy has said and done. So you can't even argue the mob mentality at this rate. The guy was a creeper to the extreme. He even admitted that it was all just a game to him. So please, do some digging into the subject.

Maybe I missed something, I am not sure if you think my comments were about this case that brought up this discussion. I was speaking a general scale since I thought this thread was about what SE and the community could have done, or does the community have a responsibly to do something. Your response does paint a picture as to what I am trying to say. In my comment I never refereed to case at hand, yet many viewed what I had to say in relation to that case due to emotionally invested some are regarding the topic. Is it really that odd of me to think of someone I do not know personally nor have had any personal interaction and having doubt in what they say? Generally speaking.

Your living in just listen and believe what a women says age the #metoo were a man is no longer allowed due process to prove his innocence he's guility because she said so. If your not 6ft tall a prince ECT ECT your a creep to a women. Fellas your playing a mmo/ video game expect women to automatically think your a creep and don't engage with them keep it strictly gaming related when you have to interact it will save you allot of grief down the line instead of trying to read minds.

I will say this, comments like this do not help anyone.

[silverlunarfox]

That is a shame, that because I do not follow the mob so to speak I am considered a piece of shit. I do not see reserving judgement as the same of condoning the action, I guess to some it is.

Its not about following the mob. You immediately brought up everybody lies, meaning you discredit the victims in this case. It has NOTHING to do with the mob. There is alot of evidence as stated previously, blatant screen captures of what this guy has said and done. So you can't even argue the mob mentality at this rate. The guy was a creeper to the extreme. He even admitted that it was all just a game to him. So please, do some digging into the subject.

[odintius]

I am not expect on the subject nor an investigator, but I am sure these types of cases take as long as they do to look into due to that very reason. Even so should we really pass judgement without having all the facts?

Your living in just listen and believe what a women says age the #metoo were a man is no longer allowed due process to prove his innocence he's guility because she said so. If your not 6ft tall a prince ECT ECT your a creep to a women. Fellas your playing a mmo/ video game expect women to automatically think your a creep and don't engage with them keep it strictly gaming related when you have to interact it will save you allot of grief down the line instead of trying to read minds.

[Penthea]

Your living in just listen and believe what a women says age the #metoo were a man is no longer allowed due process to prove his innocence he's guility because she said so. If your not 6ft tall a prince ECT ECT your a creep to a women. Fellas your playing a mmo/ video game expect women to automatically think your a creep and don't engage with them keep it strictly gaming related when you have to interact it will save you allot of grief down the line instead of trying to read minds.

I don't expect you to read several pages of any thread but I actually spoke about the numerous times I encountered abusers and have said some were female. There's no special gender, race or physical appearance to fulfil in order to be an abuser. Abusers and victims come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. I'm sorry if you feel targeted because you are male, but this thread is about a very specific group of people. Not abusers in general. It just so happens the abuser in this case is male.