Sexual harassment

[ForctyusGold]

its sad to hear that, it never happens to me to this day. My experience is doing emotes to other people who are looked good, but i dont think it can be explained as harassment. Maybe someone are more affected? In the end this is just a game, and mmorpg, it can happen, you can also report them for this behaviour, maybe GM will speak with you about that... I dont think this is a problem.

[MoroMurasaki]

I'm sorry but I really can't agree with the idea that people must stop doing something that is absolutely okay to do because other people are, to put it lightly, jerks.

There is nothing morally wrong with a lot of behaviors that are dangerous or stupid.

Walking alone at night, getting really drunk without someone to look out for you, having a one night stand, having unprotected sex... none of those things are morally or legally wrong. All of them open the door for you to get really hurt despite their amorality. Sending nudes is no different.

Blackmail and extortion are already (rightfully) demonized and can land you in legal trouble. There is no point in focusing on the perpetrators of those crimes because the legal system has that part covered. Since sending nudes is not illegal and there is no systematic detrimemt to doing so should the social focus not be on this half of the equation for now? Educating people about the risks inherent to their irresponsible behavior isn't a bad thing, it's attacking the same problem from another side.

To be very clear I have seen this happen in real life. My sister sent multiple pictures to a guy she was seeing and when they broke up he logged into her facebook and posted them all, tagging as many people in them as he could including our grandmother. As much as I wish for horrible, awful things to happen to that man he could never have done this if she didn't do a few silly-yet-not-immoral things like sharing those pictures and a common password she used for a lot of things.

It's not about people "must stop" sending nudes it's about how you are responsible for your own safety and happiness. If you callously disregard logic and reason and get hurt then perhaps you should have thought about what you were doing a bit more.

[Joven]

stuff I agree with

As someone who used to refuse to take responsibility for a lot of my own stupid actions when I was younger I agree 100% with this. It might be a bit callous for me to say this, but sometimes you have to pay a heavy price for even the smallest mistakes in order to learn valuable lessons. Hopefully you can learn them early enough that you can have time to rebuild any social/familial damage that may be incurred. Take responsibility for your actions, no matter how small. You'll come out much better in the long run.

[QT_Melon]

While I can agree with taking steps to prevent something happening again, it also doesn't change the fact that those determined enough WILL find a way no matter how many trillions of precautions you take. So therefore, I agree the onus should be on dealing with those that do it. Though I will say the best thing to do is have lawyers involved, and get them thrown in prison.

It would be nice, but not all states are caught up to the problem, and it's an international problem at that. Many of these laws are misdemeanors at best. So I doubt anyone would be going to prison for that. That's why I said someone's statement earlier was a strawman - using the assumption that everything being discussed here is prosecutable by law. Or that we're discussing "the past" (which I don't even know why that should have been part of the discussion).

In the case of the accuser, he put out a statement about trying or attempting to get back on the publication after "all of this dies down" so it should be put out there as a precaution to those that don't know his behavior that there is a chance he may engage in it again especially those new or ignorant to what is going on unfortunately.

[Joven]

It would be nice, but not all states are caught up to the problem, and it's an international problem at that. Many of these laws are misdemeanors at best. So I doubt anyone would be going to prison for that. That's why I said someone's statement earlier was a strawman - using the assumption that everything being discussed here is prosecutable by law. Or that we're discussing "the past" (which I don't even know why that should have been part of the discussion).

Wow, you completely misinterpreted what I posted. Nowhere did I say that things on here are prosecutable by law. I said that it isn't up to us, the people on this forum or any social media platform, to be the ones to prosecute or persecute people for their actions. That we are not law enforcers, which is what some people were suggesting: that we police ourselves and pass judgement on those who are accused of something, be it harassment or simply being a dick. Also, I wasn't saying you were discussing "the past". You said you were discussing the topic of this post ie: the PC Gamer article and sexual harassment in general. What I said about that was that your (and generally everyone's, not trying to single you out) "discussion" wasn't solving anything, all anyone was doing was having circular arguments and petty back-and-forths without getting anywhere. I suggested that if anyone really wanted to help people with harassment on this post then they should post signs of potential harassment situations and the steps to avoid them, personal stories about overcoming abuse/harassment, etc. Endless debating the "should'ves", "could'ves", "would'ves" and "maybes" doesn't help anyone.

[Zsolen]

I suggested that if anyone really wanted to help people with harassment on this post then they should post signs of potential harassment situations and the steps to avoid them, personal stories about overcoming abuse/harassment, etc. Endless debating the "should'ves", "could'ves", would'ves and maybes doesn't help anyone.

Can you explain these bolded parts? They seem contradictory, but perhaps they are references to different things.

[Joven]

Can you explain these bolded parts? They seem contradictory, but perhaps they are references to different things.

Sure, what I meant was what should have been done, could have been done, would have been done and maybe do.

[micropanther7]

Greetings!

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Hopefully this can facilitate a productive discussion instead of attacks on one another that result in the thread being closed or removed. Thank you for your understanding.

LGM Enkrateia

Reposting this again, cos I think some people are forgetting (or plain ignoring)

[Rogatum]

Wow. If that's the impression you got from my posts then I'm not sure that it's even worth discussing this topic with you ever.

Also, please join the year 2018. Sending nudes is neither illegal nor morally wrong. However, distributing nude photographs or videos that somebody has given you as a form of blackmail is both.

In short: There's extremely obvious merit to doing what you can to protect yourself but I'm far more interested in working against the people who actually did something illegal or highly immoral as opposed to the person who didn't. The victim already knows they could have done something different to prevent this, they don't need to hear it over and over and over again. Speaking as somebody who has experienced this, it's 100% not so simple, and I don't know how often people are going to need to repeat this. Abusers do not come at you with fangs, they come at you with smiles.

Again: Just because you can hurt someone doesn't mean you have to.

It would be nice to live in a world where you can leave your home unlocked and not worry about someone breaking it, or share someone who you are currently intimate with something more personal and not have to think about what might come of it if things do not work out, or not have to worry about someone trying to take advantage of you when you are most vulnerable. Sadly this not the world we live in, nor do I feel this will be the world any of us will live in our life time.

Like you said abusers do not come with fangs bare, they come with smiles. So people should be more careful and give their actions a little extra foresight and think about the what if's before they act. If they are comfortable with the what if's then by all means go for it, but if someone has any doubts about the what if's maybe they should refrain from doing it, and if the person you are with still pushes the subject then maybe said person is not who they thought the were.

General you not you, you. Overall I agree it just because someone can hurt someone does not mean that they should. Sadly that is not the world we live in, and since that is not the world we live it is on you to do what you can to protect yourself or at the very least understand that every action you take has an inherent risk. We should understand that risk. Sending someone nudes may allow them to use them against you if things do not work out, or having unprotected sex, you run the risk of getting pregnant. Don't you also feel if someone if not comfortable with those risks that they should refrain from doing those actions?

I think that is what most people are saying.

[Elamys]

If you callously disregard logic and reason and get hurt then perhaps you should have thought about what you were doing a bit more.

Mm, sorry, but no.

Also, let's consider how often victims of this type of crime (sexual harassment or abuse) just get this exact type of response: "why weren't you more careful?"

There are a lot of numbers and studies out there that prove the perpetrators of these crimes don't get punished on near the same level as the perpetrators of other crimes because the legal system thinks the same way you do in regards to this topic, that the onus should have been on the victim, or at least more on the victim. It's nice that you believe in the law but the law isn't working. We need a cultural shift that doesn't focus so much on the victims that did nothing wrong.