Sexual harassment

[silverlunarfox]

Please do not get me wrong I never discredited the person I am sympathetic to them, as I said might be odd but I am not going to pick a side based off one sides story. I am talking generally about abuse not just this case.

I get you see that, but everyone will see you picked a side by immediately bringing up everybody lies. That will discredit alot of what you try to say after that.

[Awha]

I get you see that, but everyone will see you picked a side by immediately bringing up everybody lies. That will discredit alot of what you try to say after that.

That is a shame, that because I do not follow the mob so to speak I am considered a piece of shit. Not saying that anyone here thinks that, but I do understand that is the light I paint myself in when do give my full support from the start. I do not see reserving judgement as the same of condoning the action, I guess to some it is.

The authorities likely don't do anything because of the offender's background (white, male, high class, etc), and the most common gender of the victim, which makes them more interested in asking the victim what they wore at the time of the incident than what actually happened.
Also, do keep in mind that for the most part, true offenses will never be a one time thing. That's why so often when one victim comes forward, a string of others follows. The few times I can think of I heard in the news where the accusations were false truly had a single accuser. In the case that brought this thread about, there are numerous victims throwing blame. It's usually a good indicator of how much truth there is to a claim.

As you said it is "usually a good indicator" it is not an exact science, that is why I tend to reserve judgement. It just scares me how so many are so quick to pass judgement on someone what has come to light from this case is horrific, but I do not think I will ever be able to get behind applauding or accepting the concept of guilty until proven innocent.

[BillyKaplan]

That is a shame, that because I do not follow the mob so to speak I am considered a piece of shit.

Now you're just hiding behind hyperboles. This thread and its discussion came about under the context of a very specific incident. You can't expect people to dissociate what you say from that context, and you should be mindful of it when you post.

[silverlunarfox]

That is a shame, that because I do not follow the mob so to speak I am considered a piece of shit. I do not see reserving judgement as the same of condoning the action, I guess to some it is.

Its not about following the mob. You immediately brought up everybody lies, meaning you discredit the victims in this case. It has NOTHING to do with the mob. There is alot of evidence as stated previously, blatant screen captures of what this guy has said and done. So you can't even argue the mob mentality at this rate. The guy was a creeper to the extreme. He even admitted that it was all just a game to him. So please, do some digging into the subject.

[odintius]

I am not expect on the subject nor an investigator, but I am sure these types of cases take as long as they do to look into due to that very reason. Even so should we really pass judgement without having all the facts?

Your living in just listen and believe what a women says age the #metoo were a man is no longer allowed due process to prove his innocence he's guility because she said so. If your not 6ft tall a prince ECT ECT your a creep to a women. Fellas your playing a mmo/ video game expect women to automatically think your a creep and don't engage with them keep it strictly gaming related when you have to interact it will save you allot of grief down the line instead of trying to read minds.

[Penthea]

Your living in just listen and believe what a women says age the #metoo were a man is no longer allowed due process to prove his innocence he's guility because she said so. If your not 6ft tall a prince ECT ECT your a creep to a women. Fellas your playing a mmo/ video game expect women to automatically think your a creep and don't engage with them keep it strictly gaming related when you have to interact it will save you allot of grief down the line instead of trying to read minds.

I don't expect you to read several pages of any thread but I actually spoke about the numerous times I encountered abusers and have said some were female. There's no special gender, race or physical appearance to fulfil in order to be an abuser. Abusers and victims come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. I'm sorry if you feel targeted because you are male, but this thread is about a very specific group of people. Not abusers in general. It just so happens the abuser in this case is male.

[Awha]

Now you're just hiding behind hyperboles. This thread and its discussion came about under the context of a very specific incident. You can't expect people to dissociate what you say from that context, and you should be mindful of it when you post.

Maybe I am viewing a different thread, I thought this thread was about what could have been done to prevent issues like this from happening not solely about this one issue. As in what could SE or the community have done to protect players from such issues. As such my comment was based around that, generally speaking I will never agree with the concept that is in favor of the the community being the ones to enact judgment on another due to accusation. As I said if it factually prove witch hunt away, but as I mentioned before how many can you really say will not act on their first emotional response? Nor am I hiding behind it, let us be real if your first response they could be lying most people will consider said person an asshole.

Its not about following the mob. You immediately brought up everybody lies, meaning you discredit the victims in this case. It has NOTHING to do with the mob. There is alot of evidence as stated previously, blatant screen captures of what this guy has said and done. So you can't even argue the mob mentality at this rate. The guy was a creeper to the extreme. He even admitted that it was all just a game to him. So please, do some digging into the subject.

Maybe I missed something, I am not sure if you think my comments were about this case that brought up this discussion. I was speaking a general scale since I thought this thread was about what SE and the community could have done, or does the community have a responsibly to do something. Your response does paint a picture as to what I am trying to say. In my comment I never refereed to case at hand, yet many viewed what I had to say in relation to that case due to emotionally invested some are regarding the topic. Is it really that odd of me to think of someone I do not know personally nor have had any personal interaction and having doubt in what they say? Generally speaking.

Your living in just listen and believe what a women says age the #metoo were a man is no longer allowed due process to prove his innocence he's guility because she said so. If your not 6ft tall a prince ECT ECT your a creep to a women. Fellas your playing a mmo/ video game expect women to automatically think your a creep and don't engage with them keep it strictly gaming related when you have to interact it will save you allot of grief down the line instead of trying to read minds.

I will say this, comments like this do not help anyone.

[Solarra]

I was wondering how many other people get harassed sexually in this game... and what can be done to reduce unwanted sexual advances

I'm not sure how common it is. I'd like to say not 'that' common but it's hard to say. Some of the replies in this thread have been less than sympathetic and looking at them I can understand people not wanting to come forward and talk about it. It's bad enough being harassed without somebody basically blaming you or mocking you for being 'over-sensitive'.

It's happened to me once (not in FF), and since the person was my guild leader and knew all my alts, it was easier for me to leave the game completely than try and get away from them and keep playing. I was lucky, I didn't have many friends there and I had friends here.

Since coming to FF I've seen a few instances but haven't experienced anything directly.
In one case a friend (male playing female) was 'befriended' by a random player they met in a dungeon who gave them a bit of advice on their class, a few pieces of gear to 'help them out' as they were new and then started with the sexual suggestions. I felt really sorry for him, he told the person he was male and not interested but the harassment continued. It might tell you something that every female in the FC jumped into the conversation at this point to say,
'Yeah, you told him you're a guy, but that's what we all say!'.

The other instances I've witnessed all involved people who were 'vulnerable' in some way (RL trauma, recent break-up, extremely young etc.).

What can we do as a community?
As FC leaders, I think the most important thing to do is to create a place where this isn't tolerated and where people feel able to speak up and ask for help.
We went so far as to put up a 'Staying Safe' post on our FC forum.
The first section was mainly advice on not giving out personal information (it makes harassment so much easier if someone can find you outside the game) and how to effectively block someone and avoid them in-game. The last part was signs that a friendship is starting to edge towards being unhealthy, because in most cases it shifts from 'normal' by degrees. I'll post that list as it may be helpful to someone.

Things to watch out for:
- your 'friend' wants to monopolise all your time online
- they get annoyed if you spend time with other people or even if you talk to other people
- they try and split you from your other friends by saying they are talking about you etc. (Isolating someone is usually the first step to abuse, this one should be a huge red flag)
- they demand to know where you are all the time
- they press for personal information and won't take 'no' for an answer
- if you say you want time alone, they get angry or just turn up at the nearest Aetheryte
- they seem really helpful and kind, but then try to pressure you into doing things you don't want to because they gave you 'x' or spent time helping you do something
- in extreme cases they may threaten to harm themselves if you try to break off the friendship or don't do what they want. This may not be a direct threat, it may take the form of telling you they would have hurt themselves if you hadn't been there for them or they don't know how they'll cope without you).

It is really hard to combat this because abusers tend to choose people who are vulnerable and/or empathic and ruthlessly exploit their sympathy or kind-nature to maintain their hold.
Saying things like, 'only give personal info to someone you trust,' helps a little but it isn't that useful, as in most cases the person will work very hard at getting their victim to trust them long before they engage in any abuse.

[Okamimaru]

So what do you want this community to do? Are you here just to stir the pot or are you looking for a particular outcome? People's posts are reflective of how they feel about the entire situation. He is not a community leader, just someone popular with a fan site. Also, there are ways to black list them in game and report them, you can block someone on all your social media, block them on discord. Outside of that, what can we or SE do? Nothing... so I don't know if you are just trying to rile everyone up ? What is your agenda here because i think its the former.

I'm simply opening up a dialogue that I feel is well past due...

[Awha]

You need to read the article. There are numerous screenshots proving the ex TMP editor was admitting to his abusive behaviour and that he is talented at targeting women who can be preyed upon. Furthermore when he stepped down as editor he gave TMP social media logins only to those who allied with him, and he is now demanding his position be returned.

Yes people do lie but the amount of accusations is shocking. They can't all be lying, that's ridiculous. What do they have to gain from lying? Get control over TMP? Well there's no guarantee that the old editor wouldn't have just dissolved it instead of handing over control, or replace all the staff who tried to stand against him. If they really wanted TMP they could have just left in a mass exodus and made their own magazine instead. The most likely reason for revealing his abuse is that all the victims were horrified to find out that he has been engaging in this behaviour for years and want to break the cycle for good.

Even being anonymous it's not easy to come out as a victim. Victim blaming is very real and you only need to look at this thread to see how common it is. Bad enough to be a victim and then have people trying to shame you for being stupid. I really hope they're not reading this thread because some truly horrific statements have been made about them.

Before I go on I would like to say I do agree with what you are saying, and none of posts were about the horrific incident. Each of them was made regarding the general issue I have with communities enacting their own brand of justice without all the facts present. For example acting purely on accusations. With that said and done, would you really say reversing judgment simply because one is unwilling to give a person the benefit of the doubt the same as victim blaming?