Horizontal progression? In MY theme park?!

[Sebazy]

My thought is that there's just going to be a single BiS set that gets one particular set of effects that everyone is expected to shoot for.

Played correctly, I think it's possible to actually brute force a bit of a variety into the proceedings TBH.

The reason why I went straight to adding a VIT bonus on my idea was because that will immediately be the go to for progression or simply content that's not quite farm status for your group.

Sticking with the healer side of things, it'd be very possible to put in a number of decent bonuses that are more of a QOL thing than a raw numbers boost.

A 1 second reduction on the recast of Regen is an example that comes straight to mind for WHM for example. As an AST you could mix it up and offer something like a -15 second reduction on the recast of Spread. Both of these are somewhat low PPS impact but big QOL tweaks, they aren't remotely game changing in terms of 'muh logs' but they would have an impact on the feel of the job which is the aim here.

People aren't going to be able to catch up when they need 10 different sets of gear.

This is FFXIV, you don't need anything, a trip to the AH for some crafted or a couple of weeks of 24 man/dungeons/eureka is enough for everything except Ultimate. This is really just something to let the min maxers go that little extra mile. Don't forget that a good portion of the raid community used to carry a variety of sets to handle varying accuracy caps from turn to turn. Crein's suggestion is effectively bringing that back in a less cheesy or mandatory manner.

[CreinCrein]

If implemented correctly there could be possibilities for different BiSs for different raid situations. Sets that effective in dummy fights, sets that work better for movement heavy fights, sets that work well in prog scenarios, sets that help preserve resources through fights that are heavy on intermissions, sets for heaving AOEing (for the heavy padders :eyes: ) to name a few. Definitely a lot more interesting than what we have right now.

[Adeacia]

If implemented correctly there could be possibilities for different BiSs for different raid situations. Sets that effective in dummy fights, sets that work better for movement heavy fights, sets that work well in prog scenarios, sets that help preserve resources through fights that are heavy on intermissions, sets for heaving AOEing (for the heavy padders :eyes: ) to name a few. Definitely a lot more interesting than what we have right now.

Where would be put all these sets? In the armory chest that is too small? This also sounds like a waste of time. People aren't going to be able to catch up when they need 10 different sets of gear.

[CreinCrein]

Where would be put all these sets? In the armory chest that is too small? This also sounds like a waste of time. People aren't going to be able to catch up when they need 10 different sets of gear.

You'd only need 2 sets of gear; for example 370 tome/370 raid. You'd just switch out individual pieces to meet the stat caps you need to trigger the effects on the abilities. I don't think that's too much of a hassle?

[KisaiTenshi]

You'd only need 2 sets of gear; for example 370 tome/370 raid. You'd just switch out individual pieces to meet the stat caps you need to trigger the effects on the abilities. I don't think that's too much of a hassle?

If we can do Glamour Plates, we can do Effect plates.

[Lambdafish]

I really think that XIV needs an "augments" system. Replacing the current gear system with a more horizontal skill affecting gear system, perhaps players could unlock augments (which would be equipped in separate gear slots and have unique effects) by doing content. These could either be skill affecting, or even glamour affecting, and would allow a sense of horizontal progression laid on top of the existing vertical progression.

In a way, gearing up isn't the main draw of running content in the slightest, and being BiS is simply a means to an end. People raid for the achievement, not the gear, with things like mounts and music rolls adding the additional incentive. Ex primals are the same, the most sought-after items from that content is the whistles, and I think what people are wanting is gear, or at least something that has the same kind of draw, instead of BiS being achieved over the course of time and not bringing any kind of accomplishment with it.

[AxlStream]

Horizontal this, horizontal that. Doesn't matter folks, always a cookie cutter build that will be preferred/required for certain benefits. That's how it is with any MMORPG.

[Sotaris]

I'd rather have horizontal gear. It good for a casual to go away and be up to date in few weeks but it don't really give incentives to cap tomes if you are active cause everything is replaced in a few mounts.

I liked what they did in 11. Back in Lv75 cap days aka the good days you had Byakko Haidate for years, relic was bis and op af - also hard to obtain as it should.

[ElHeggunte]

I'd rather have horizontal gear. It good for a casual to go away and be up to date in few weeks but it don't really give incentives to cap tomes if you are active cause everything is replaced in a few mounts.

People say you have no motivation to cap tomes because gear is replaced every 6-7 months. Fine. If we had FFXI's style of horizontal progression, you wouldn't have an incentive to obtain new gear for years because you had the best within a few months of its release (unless RNG really hated you). Now you're either not progressing your character because you literally can't improve any more or you're not progressing because terrible RNG decided you could use another Earth crystal instead of your E.Body. How is that fun? The only reason it was somewhat workable in XI is because we could swap gear in combat so at least you could make specific ability sets (like a VIT set for MNK's Chakra).

I liked what they did in 11. Back in Lv75 cap days aka the good days you had Byakko Haidate for years, relic was bis and op af - also hard to obtain as it should.

But it wasn't hard to obtain outside of fighting with the drop rate. The same goes for most of the content that dropped the best gear: the hardest part was claiming the monster or farming up the materials to pop it and then hoping it dropped the item you want. Things only became remotely difficult if you tried to low-man or your group was incompetent. Relics weren't hard either, they were just gated by how quickly you could obtain currency.

[Sotaris]

People say you have no motivation to cap tomes because gear is replaced every 6-7 months. Fine. If we had FFXI's style of horizontal progression, you wouldn't have an incentive to obtain new gear for years because you had the best within a few months of its release (unless RNG really hated you). Now you're either not progressing your character because you literally can't improve any more or you're not progressing because terrible RNG decided you could use another Earth crystal instead of your E.Body. How is that fun? The only reason it was somewhat workable in XI is because we could swap gear in combat so at least you could make specific ability sets (like a VIT set for MNK's Chakra).

It was also Lv75, the cap for a long time so there wasn't a reason to get new gear (11 had as you possibly are aware of, not having iLevels until recently). 11 was also more event heavy (sky, sea, dynamis, ground kings, list goes on).

But i didn't mean this would turn into a 11 discussion, just my 2 cent on horizontal isn't all bad as people want to make out.

But it wasn't hard to obtain outside of fighting with the drop rate. The same goes for most of the content that dropped the best gear: the hardest part was claiming the monster or farming up the materials to pop it and then hoping it dropped the item you want. Things only became remotely difficult if you tried to low-man or your group was incompetent. Relics weren't hard either, they were just gated by how quickly you could obtain currency.

I shouldn't had used the word hard. It was very timeconsuming (if we talk about relic and not toah mythics) or costly if you bought all the currency.
But it was more difficult to obtain a FF11 relic compared to a FF14 relic. And much much more powerful and felt more accomplished.