Horizontal progression? In MY theme park?!

[KisaiTenshi]

So, how can FFXIV pull this off? I'd go with a variant on Kisa's approach but roll it into a form of set bonuses. Let's say I have a full set of Sigma gear, consider having a set bonus that can be unlocked by wearing 2 pieces of gear depending on where the gear is from. PvP gear could unlock something like a cast time reduction on Stone. Crafted could unlock some extra VIT. Hunt gear could unlock a movement speed bonus. There's plenty of ways to add in flavour to this and it's simple enough to roll extra bonus stats in with the set bonus so that you're not destroying your main stats for the sake of these sorts of bonuses. When odd numbered patches come along with new gear, it's easy enough to bump up the bonuses slightly on the new stuff to give the raiders and min maxers a fresh carrot to chase.

Simple no?

I know which post you're talking about, yet I can't seem to find it. Mandela effect.

The set bonuses like that from the GC, should be applied as separate Right-hand gear / Left-Hand gear sets.

eg a full set of crafted HQ gear, hunter gear, raider gear, MSQ (tomes) gear, PvP gear, would offer a different set bonus tuned to the content they're for. So skill/spell speed reduction for PvP skills for a PvP set, Primary role substat boost for Raider gear, etc.

I also talked about Anima/Spirit weapon that gives you a LB for solo/non-party/overworld content that could be something that simply grows with you and you can just glamour over the physical weapon when you're bored of how it looks. Anima pops out when a LB charge is available, otherwise offers a fixed stat boost. Behaves like a regular ilevel weapon in party content.

[Bonbori]

PvP gear, would offer a different set bonus tuned to the content they're for. So skill/spell speed reduction for PvP skills for a PvP set,

Gosh please no. I hope they never do it in this game. The only reason I tolerate PvP enough to occasionally queue into it to buy something from the PvP vendors is because it's *convenient*. I don't have to lug around a separate set (or several) of PvP gear or do any other kind of extraneous prep. I can jump into it in the middle of doing PvE stuff and then pick up right where I left off after the match.

Gear or anything else being irrelevant to PvP also puts everyone on an even playing field. When a team gets trounced, they don't get to make the "bawww, the other team had better gear!" excuse because it's purely a matter of composition and tactics, both of which can be adjusted on the fly (not that anyone does but the option is there).

PvP-specific gear that grants objective, mechanical advantages over people who don't have it has no place in the game and would ensure that I would never ever queue into a match again. Probably not a good thing given that PvP is uninviting and unattractive to new players in the first place and the queues already take forever because very few people stick around once they've gotten everything they wanted out of the vendors.

[Badicalde]

I agree with OP. So much of the gear feels very disposable since it gets replaced so quickly, and unless you’re a high-end player, most of the stats don’t even matter. Set bonuses or action specific stats would be interesting. Of course, there would be a need to have, say, different sets for different situations, but at this point in the game maybe it’s too late for that...

[MicahZerrshia]

imo without gear swaps horizontal progression isn't all its cracked up to be. Plus the stats are so dumbed down in this game it wouldn't really matter.

They would need a major stat overhaul if they would do that and they are so scared to make a system with any hint of complication that will never happen. The only stat overhaul we will ever get will be to further simplify it. Yoshi even said he thinks its still too complicated for the average gamer, which says a lot either about the average gamer or Yoshida's perception of them.

[Gemina]

I echo some of the posts in this thread and have to wonder exactly why anyone would want horizontal progression in this game. To me, it's an antiquated system older mmos used, so I sense a bit of nostalgia with the desire for its presence in today's mmos.

A system I proposed several months ago was a bit of a compromise that I'm not sure how the devs would implement, but horizontal progression actually makes sense for our belts and accessories since these are the least desired slots to constantly update and glamour. The idea is to release a set of leveling accessories as normal, and then ONE set of accessories at Max level that lasts the duration of the expansion and slap them behind a moderate grind that gets these peeps running content. Could also release another lesser set for the more casual player with less strict requirements.

Probably not exactly what horizontal progression seekers want, but still a change I think many would favor, and would also save the devs some work considering they are already reusing a s ton accessory designs on new releases.

[SendohJin]

I echo some of the posts in this thread and have to wonder exactly why anyone would want horizontal progression in this game.

it keeps old content relevant and that makes people feel like there's more to do. i don't particularly care for it but usually it does do that.

[Shurrikhan]

Serious Talk:

Fundamentally, I like the idea of somewhat horizontal progression. It makes the world feel a bit more fleshed out, if within reason. But let's not pretend that it doesn't have fundamental drawbacks.

I like that I could have some portion of the game I care about more than other portions, and most of my gearing will therefore be aimed at that, while I may fall behind on others, so long as the gap isn't so significant that I'm unable to progress seriously in a given sector of content . Or, alternatively, I kind of like that I may have to play different sorts of content in order to get the gear that most capitalizes upon my playstyle, so long as (1) my playstyle really is allowed for and (2) I still enjoy each of those pieces of content enough to be at least as happy for the variance as I would be if I were permitted to play only the content type I liked most, or there's still enough exchange between content types that I don't have to play the content types I don't care for.

But, that's essentially all horizontal progression is. It's exclusivity, by design. It might not be felt enough to generate divides in the playerbase in practice, but that really is what makes horizontal progression horizontal -- specialization. Vertical progression may end up devaluing the majority of its content because it has less impact on gearing, and thus contribution balance is essential in order not to waste resources, but so long as there's only one real progression series, at least it applies to everything, allowing you to swap between content types however you please. The pace at which one progresses is the only thing capable of splitting up a group of friends at all, not where they choose to spend that progress.

it keeps old content relevant and that makes people feel like there's more to do. i don't particularly care for it but usually it does do that.

It doesn't necessarily accomplish even that, though. The only way to make a given piece of content last longer is to make it particularly difficult or less rewarding, such as through drop rates. That piece of content won't face obsoletion until there's a better way to get the progress it provides, but people will still finish the content and never look back just as quickly. The largest bonus possible is that, say, more content will be available to someone upon reaching level-cap if they'd fallen behind previously or only just started the game with the latest expansion. But the amount of content simultaneously available probably won't much be affected if at all. Consider what a player could do to gear up if they hit their first 70 at level 4.35. They can do that new Aquapolis thing, the new Palace of the Dead, dungeons within their item level, 24-mans within their item level, normal mode raids, Frontlines, Feast, or technically even Savage Raids to gear up. That's your breadth of content, right there.

That they all form a pyramid leading to a single peak, whereupon one is "done" is not a unique issue: one could still finish and find there to be nothing left to do if there were six or more separate spires instead, one for each sector of content: they'd just feel less connected, such that if you prefer dungeons and your friend prefers Heaven's Tower you're forced to split up once the gearing disadvantage moving across from one to the other becomes too great.

_________________________________________________________

But, let's say XIV for whatever reason turned their philosophy about, 180-degrees, and decided that horizontal progression, as a buzz word, was just... the way to go.

To put it simply: I'd be opposed to anything that significantly breaks apart various content types. I'd be opposed to arbitrary by-gimmick gating like Elemental Resistance stats. And, honestly, I don't want to farm a given piece of content for an interesting piece of gear -- e.g. something that would augment an ability in a way that could actually affect my rotation, such as allowing a chance for Firestarter off of Fire4 and giving Fire3 an additional 40 potency. I'd much, much rather that seemingly be a part of a universal character customization system, to which a certain content type or encounter might better contribute, or might uniquely provide some small part, towards X customization/post-progression option. I'd rather a Relic or Regalia (think: some item set that allows for a unique playstyle) mostly be something you progress towards granularly (outside of a few burstier events to spice things up), not just bang your head against for 4 months and then suddenly acquire.

To put it even more simply: Reiterability of content >>> "Length" of content. Breadth of content simultaneously available >>> Breadth of content paths.

[Maeka]

it keeps old content relevant and that makes people feel like there's more to do. i don't particularly care for it but usually it does do that.

The content is grindy enough, why do you want to keep it relevant for longer? lol

People already complain about having to run older dungeons for roulette... do you think people still want to be raiding Bahamut's Coil for gear that is still relevant today? Some people raid it for S&G or roulette bonuses, but not for the drops. Do you think it's healthy to force people to continue raiding it for the rest of the game's lifespan?

[Lambdafish]

The content is grindy enough, why do you want to keep it relevant for longer? lol

Because there are new players joining all the time. The idea of unsynced content, grind nerfs and other methods of making old content completely faceroll (to the point where some bosses can be killed before their first mechanic) is unpleasant if you are just reaching those pieces of content for the first time. Grinds I understand to a certain extent, but unsync is a really bad system that has unfortunately become baseline in the game. There needs to be some sort of control over it so that the content is at least still content rather than a few hits and instant rewards.

The same can be said about poor level sync (particularly on content early into an expansion cycle), but thats a whole other issue.

[SendohJin]

The content is grindy enough, why do you want to keep it relevant for longer? lol

People already complain about having to run older dungeons for roulette... do you think people still want to be raiding Bahamut's Coil for gear that is still relevant today? Some people raid it for S&G or roulette bonuses, but not for the drops. Do you think it's healthy to force people to continue raiding it for the rest of the game's lifespan?

do you even read what you quote?