Horizontal progression? In MY theme park?!

[Sebazy]

Apologies for a kind of double post, but I thought this was an interesting enough idea that it was worth a thread of it's own rather than getting buried under another topic's rantings:

TLDR: How could we have more gear variety in FFXIV?

Rather than get blinded by how FFXI handled things, let's look a bit further back to the days of Everquest. The game was primarily horizontal progression with mild levels of verticality between expansions and tiers. The overall quality of gear was noticeably better in late tier raids such as Vex Thal when compared to old endgame content such as VP or recent but entry level content such as the first planes in PoP.

However, most endgame zones had a few pieces of 'Halo' gear, items that were unique enough or good enough to stand above other options even 4 or 5 expansions down the line. As a Shaman raiding up until the mid point of PoP, I was still utterly inseparable from my VP Robe and Snare spear and overall wore a variety of bits of gear from a content right across the game ( https://eq.magelo.com/profile/9093 ).

So, how can FFXIV pull this off? I'd go with a variant on Kisa's approach but roll it into a form of set bonuses. Let's say I have a full set of Sigma gear, consider having a set bonus that can be unlocked by wearing 2 pieces of gear depending on where the gear is from. PvP gear could unlock something like a cast time reduction on Stone. Crafted could unlock some extra VIT. Hunt gear could unlock a movement speed bonus. There's plenty of ways to add in flavour to this and it's simple enough to roll extra bonus stats in with the set bonus so that you're not destroying your main stats for the sake of these sorts of bonuses. When odd numbered patches come along with new gear, it's easy enough to bump up the bonuses slightly on the new stuff to give the raiders and min maxers a fresh carrot to chase.

Simple no?

*edit*

To clarify since the original post was a bit rushed and not as clear as it could have been.

My idea is to actually have the set bonus based off the main raiding sets aka Tome and Savage gear.

This would offer a set bonus when used in tandem with other sets within the same tier as well as offering a stat boost to bring the lower ilvl piece up to par with the main set.

So for example:

Lets take the Diamond set of healing.

It could have the following set bonus as a very rough example:

0.5 second cast time reduction on Stone IV when used with 2 pieces of PvP gear.
+100 VIT when used with 2 pieces of crafted gear.
+10% Movement speed when used with Hunt gear.

This could be further played along by adding a slightly juicier bonus with odd numbered patch content (Basically, extra crafted and 24 man stuff).

The idea isn't to make people not want to upgrade their gear, but rather reward players for earning a wider variety of equipment (and thus dabbling in more content that they otherwise might not. The crafted bonus will be king during progression, whereas it'd be easy enough to include interesting perks on other sets to take over as people get geared and don't need the VIT anymore.

Is it a perfect example of horizontal progression? No. But it spices up a recipe that's been getting awfully stale over the last few years.

[Nora_of_Mira]

The same argument will be made every time this comes up: any kind of bonus that grants any significant difference (Vit+, Spell speed, movement speed? that's debatable) will only become the "preferred build" for clearing certain content and people will be gated depending on how significant the bonuses are. As it stands, all normal content has no need for these bonuses so the harm it would potentially cause is debatable (would people care?). But for savage content, the meta is already established that you pump your substats into w/e makes your DPS higher (exception being early progression and VIT).

Overall, I dont see a place in FFxiv for horizontal progression as the gear will be replaced every few months. To me, "horizontal progression" in FFxiv's terms is gearing/leveling alt jobs while your main job has nothing to do until next patch.

edit: meant alt jobs, not alt characters

[Adeacia]

I don't want gear that will last me for years. Then I'd have nothing to work toward, no goal. I don't want a static character that can't grow anymore. I'd have no reason to play the game.

[Dyvid]

I think we need a leveling experience after we reach max level. I've always said they need to add job specific materia. In that way you still have the vertical gear grind but a horizontal xp grind to keep improving.

[Derio]

I dont think so. Horizontal progression like how ESO has it is can be very very boring. Horizontal progression would devalue alot of things in the game. Once you have the top gear what exactly would you be doing in game? You would literally be waiting for the next major expansion or next update that has a gearset that becomes the new meta.

[KisaiTenshi]

So, how can FFXIV pull this off? I'd go with a variant on Kisa's approach but roll it into a form of set bonuses. Let's say I have a full set of Sigma gear, consider having a set bonus that can be unlocked by wearing 2 pieces of gear depending on where the gear is from. PvP gear could unlock something like a cast time reduction on Stone. Crafted could unlock some extra VIT. Hunt gear could unlock a movement speed bonus. There's plenty of ways to add in flavour to this and it's simple enough to roll extra bonus stats in with the set bonus so that you're not destroying your main stats for the sake of these sorts of bonuses. When odd numbered patches come along with new gear, it's easy enough to bump up the bonuses slightly on the new stuff to give the raiders and min maxers a fresh carrot to chase.

Simple no?

I know which post you're talking about, yet I can't seem to find it. Mandela effect.

The set bonuses like that from the GC, should be applied as separate Right-hand gear / Left-Hand gear sets.

eg a full set of crafted HQ gear, hunter gear, raider gear, MSQ (tomes) gear, PvP gear, would offer a different set bonus tuned to the content they're for. So skill/spell speed reduction for PvP skills for a PvP set, Primary role substat boost for Raider gear, etc.

I also talked about Anima/Spirit weapon that gives you a LB for solo/non-party/overworld content that could be something that simply grows with you and you can just glamour over the physical weapon when you're bored of how it looks. Anima pops out when a LB charge is available, otherwise offers a fixed stat boost. Behaves like a regular ilevel weapon in party content.

[Badicalde]

I agree with OP. So much of the gear feels very disposable since it gets replaced so quickly, and unless you’re a high-end player, most of the stats don’t even matter. Set bonuses or action specific stats would be interesting. Of course, there would be a need to have, say, different sets for different situations, but at this point in the game maybe it’s too late for that...

[MicahZerrshia]

imo without gear swaps horizontal progression isn't all its cracked up to be. Plus the stats are so dumbed down in this game it wouldn't really matter.

They would need a major stat overhaul if they would do that and they are so scared to make a system with any hint of complication that will never happen. The only stat overhaul we will ever get will be to further simplify it. Yoshi even said he thinks its still too complicated for the average gamer, which says a lot either about the average gamer or Yoshida's perception of them.

[Gemina]

I echo some of the posts in this thread and have to wonder exactly why anyone would want horizontal progression in this game. To me, it's an antiquated system older mmos used, so I sense a bit of nostalgia with the desire for its presence in today's mmos.

A system I proposed several months ago was a bit of a compromise that I'm not sure how the devs would implement, but horizontal progression actually makes sense for our belts and accessories since these are the least desired slots to constantly update and glamour. The idea is to release a set of leveling accessories as normal, and then ONE set of accessories at Max level that lasts the duration of the expansion and slap them behind a moderate grind that gets these peeps running content. Could also release another lesser set for the more casual player with less strict requirements.

Probably not exactly what horizontal progression seekers want, but still a change I think many would favor, and would also save the devs some work considering they are already reusing a s ton accessory designs on new releases.

[SendohJin]

I echo some of the posts in this thread and have to wonder exactly why anyone would want horizontal progression in this game.

it keeps old content relevant and that makes people feel like there's more to do. i don't particularly care for it but usually it does do that.