Quote Originally Posted by Noelaits View Post
So, guren feels a bit underwhelming to me, i mean its 800 potency for 50 kenki(16potency per kenki), while shinten is 300 potency for 25 kenki(12 potency per kenki), now obviously guren is a better ability, but honestly its just two thirds of a free shinten every 2 minutes in single target, its not that great, whats the point of this ability? i wouldnt loose almost any dps by just ignoring it would i?
I don't know the calculation for exactly what the DPS loss would be for purposely never using Guren, but your calculation does show that it is a DPS gain purely by efficency of kenki usage. If I had to take a guess, it would probably not be more than a 100-200 dps loss on a max geared character. For the vast majority of content a margin that small is meaningless, but for hardcore stuff, that is pretty huge.

This gain can be further enhanced by lining up Guren with other party buffs like Trick Attack, Brotherhood, Dragon Sight, Battle Littany, Embolden, etc.

Where Guren really shines is obviously for AoE. The DPS gain for hitting a second enemy is absolutely massive. Considering how many add phases there are in hardcore end game encounters, this is a great strength.