Materia: the new Armory System

[Dragon]

I think the OP made a good point. If only crafting gear can be melded, and gear with multiple materia is to be superior, there would be little or no reason to battle for gear. The only way currently to do this, is to offer gear that caters to those who do not meld multiple pieces or offer side grades to the multiple materia gear (Ifrit weapons for example). Ofcourse they can add more crafting gear which would only start the whole process again without addressing the need to battle at all.

However, I think you are very mistaken in thinking the only or the best solution is to get rid of the materia system. I think the OP is very thoughtful on this matter, yet I do not think to have considered every possible remedy.

That said, I would suggest, instead of phasing out the materia system, do the following:

Make all gear crafted. No more exclusive items. Instead of dropping items directly, bosses will drop an abundance of materials. For example, Batraal, instead of dropping 1-3 items from a chest, his death will produce various pieces of hide and bone, even possibly a broken blade that can be refurnished into a sword for paladins. The abundance of items will allow people to get drops reliably, and then allow them to reliably turn them into gear and meld over and over. Thus, those who complete the dungeons the quickest and with the most ease are able to acquire the most materials and most chances for success in melding materia.

This system would actually impose skill into getting the best gear melded with multiple materia, it would keep crafters necessary and make the materia system more interesting. In addition, it would allow the current problem of terrible droprates to be eliminated, favoring players to get drops quickly and reliably each time, so they can then attempt multiple melds.

It would also allow groups of players to earn gil by selling these items to crafters and players who wish to meld themselves.

I think this would be a wise solution.

[Vaen]

I second (third? fourth..'d?) the great idea of making ALL gear crafted and making HNMs, dungeons, etc drop the crafting materials.

The idea of having HNMs drop actual gear that can be used as one of the materials in a recipe for an even better, meldable crafted version of that gear is a good idea that fits in with this, too.

[Matsume]

I second (third? fourth..'d?) the great idea of making ALL gear crafted and making HNMs, dungeons, etc drop the crafting materials.

The idea of having HNMs drop actual gear that can be used as one of the materials in a recipe for an even better, meldable crafted version of that gear is a good idea that fits in with this, too.

I like these ideas but methinks a system in which such gear binds on equip would have to be implemented.

However, I think you are very mistaken in thinking the only or the best solution is to get rid of the materia system. I think the OP is very thoughtful on this matter, yet I do not think to have considered every possible remedy.

That said, I would suggest, instead of phasing out the materia system, do the following:

Make all gear crafted. No more exclusive items. Instead of dropping items directly, bosses will drop an abundance of materials. For example, Batraal, instead of dropping 1-3 items from a chest, his death will produce various pieces of hide and bone, even possibly a broken blade that can be refurnished into a sword for paladins. The abundance of items will allow people to get drops reliably, and then allow them to reliably turn them into gear and meld over and over. Thus, those who complete the dungeons the quickest and with the most ease are able to acquire the most materials and most chances for success in melding materia.

This system would actually impose skill into getting the best gear melded with multiple materia, it would keep crafters necessary and make the materia system more interesting. In addition, it would allow the current problem of terrible droprates to be eliminated, favoring players to get drops quickly and reliably each time, so they can then attempt multiple melds.

It would also allow groups of players to earn gil by selling these items to crafters and players who wish to meld themselves.

/thumbsup I support this idea.

I'm going to add 2 gils worth:

Gil 1) Make melding like repairing: Adventurer X has Materia Y and Gear Z to which he wants meld. Adventurer X sets up the demand + reward + catalysts (instead of dm, duh) through a UI not ulike the gear repair menu. Random Crafter X performs meld without having to trade gear.

This has two main benefits:
-No adventurer can be ripped off by random crafters who do not trade back gears or materia
-My next point, which has been brough up by a number of posts:

Gil 2) Make U/U gear meldable. Obviously this con ONLY work synergistically with my first sugggestion.

This will also have several obvious beneficial effects:
-It will give U/U gear the potential to be on par with multi melded crafted gear.
-It will greatly increase the Replay Value of all instances, raids, coffers, NM/HNM/Primal fights that drop U/U gear seeing as multi melded U/U gear will become the desirable end game gear to have, and no doubt countless will be lost in the process- necesitating another visit to said destination.
-It will add uniqueness to peoples garb. This way every mage in town wont be wearing the same multi melded piece of crafter gear.
-Pride and Accomplishment. People will have tales to tell about their trials and tribulations attempting to 2x or 3x that damned Revolutionary's Bliaud or Solid Scale Mail etc.

Discuss...

[lamerider]

remove the materia system simply

[Badger]

I think the OP made a good point. If only crafting gear can be melded, and gear with multiple materia is to be superior, there would be little or no reason to battle for gear. The only way currently to do this, is to offer gear that caters to those who do not meld multiple pieces or offer side grades to the multiple materia gear (Ifrit weapons for example). Ofcourse they can add more crafting gear which would only start the whole process again without addressing the need to battle at all.

However, I think you are very mistaken in thinking the only or the best solution is to get rid of the materia system. I think the OP is very thoughtful on this matter, yet I do not think to have considered every possible remedy.

That said, I would suggest, instead of phasing out the materia system, do the following:

Make all gear crafted. No more exclusive items. Instead of dropping items directly, bosses will drop an abundance of materials. For example, Batraal, instead of dropping 1-3 items from a chest, his death will produce various pieces of hide and bone, even possibly a broken blade that can be refurnished into a sword for paladins. The abundance of items will allow people to get drops reliably, and then allow them to reliably turn them into gear and meld over and over. Thus, those who complete the dungeons the quickest and with the most ease are able to acquire the most materials and most chances for success in melding materia.

This system would actually impose skill into getting the best gear melded with multiple materia, it would keep crafters necessary and make the materia system more interesting. In addition, it would allow the current problem of terrible droprates to be eliminated, favoring players to get drops quickly and reliably each time, so they can then attempt multiple melds.

It would also allow groups of players to earn gil by selling these items to crafters and players who wish to meld themselves.

This! A symbiotic relationship between battle classes and crafting classes is the answer. If end-game bosses simply drop items that are far superior to crafted items, there is no point in leveling crafting classes to begin with. This is the pitfall of just about every other MMO out on the market, and I'd really like it if FFXIV could avoid falling into that same trap.

[Matsume]

remove the materia system simply

Never gunna happen. Get used to it.

[Rhomagus]

Nice we get a pointless post from a guy who didn't read the original post. How then is anything you said relevant? I don't understand, and now I'm going to trail off talking about something else that is unrelated to the original topic, while using a lot of punctuation, in a really long and completely wrong format, what’s awesome is spelling/grammar checks leave these things alone.

The post never went off topic. I disagreed with the premise of the OP. That kind of rhetoric leads to suggestions like this:

remove the materia system simply

You heard this a lot with the Armoury system. Now we have a significantly watered down version of not only the Armoury system, but the gear system as well. I would rather avoid this with materia.

The following are suggestions that I could support.

Asiaine:

Hello all,

As somone who actually likes the idea of 'A' materia system, maybe I can throw in my 2 gils worth.

Fact: Significant portion of people will aim for the best posible gear for their job.

Question: What is the source of the best possible gear?

If battle drops, then crafters are unhappy.
If crafters, then battling adventurers are unhappy.
If battle drops equal crafted gear, then battling adventurers are unhappy.

Rationale:
Battling adventurers want to fight big HNM to get drops and be proud of the hard work they put in. When they see they could just go to a crafter, give a few gil, and get something as good or better, they feel as if their hard work is for naught.

Solution Need:
A solution must exist where the best equipment does NOT come from Battling HNMs *OR* from crafters, but must come from the usage of BOTH of these approaches.

Example:
HNM drops equipment. When this equipment is then used in crafting (as an ingredient, or matteria added, or what not) it then becomes the best there is.

I feel that only through the succesful marriage of both HNM drops and crafting can both parties be made happy.

(Yes, I know this mimics a lot of what is said in this thread, I am simply trying to reword it into plain speak).

Now, MY suggestion (well, not mine mine, it's actually SEs suggestion and echoed here in the forums before).
Crafted Gear with basic materials = 1-3 materia slots (depending on level). All slots at 100% affix rate.
Crafted Gear with rare materials (HNM dropped materials) = 1-5 materia slots (depending on level and HQ). All slots at 100% affix rate.
HNM Dropped Gear = 0 slots (bear with me now....)


I would suggest that HNM Dropped Gear could be used as a material in Crafts that could yield a new gear that would then have materia slots. For example:
Ifrit drops a nice cudgel. You could then go and use it as normal. *OR* you could find a crafter who would take a risk in trying to craft Ifrit Cudgel into Tweaked Ifrity Cudgel, which then would accept 1 (2 if HQ) slots @ 100%

Perhaps even intersting recipes such as:
Ifrit Cudgel + Uraeurus' (sp?) Hide + Rune Stone = Hellfire Cudgel of The Gods (3 slots, 5 if HQ).


This way, all HNMs continue to drop items of value.
Crafters can create items of value.
Crafters who join up with adventurers and combine their skills can create an item of great value!

Now if I can find a way to squeze my lumberjack in there, I'm set!

Note:
A lot of my interest and suggestions on the Materia system come from FFVII which I think had the BEST equipment customization I have ever ever seen!
Also I am interested in crafting and HNM drops, so would love to see a system that combines the two for the best.


Thank you and I apologize for the long post.

Roaran:

I think the OP made a good point. If only crafting gear can be melded, and gear with multiple materia is to be superior, there would be little or no reason to battle for gear. The only way currently to do this, is to offer gear that caters to those who do not meld multiple pieces or offer side grades to the multiple materia gear (Ifrit weapons for example). Ofcourse they can add more crafting gear which would only start the whole process again without addressing the need to battle at all.

However, I think you are very mistaken in thinking the only or the best solution is to get rid of the materia system. I think the OP is very thoughtful on this matter, yet I do not think to have considered every possible remedy.

That said, I would suggest, instead of phasing out the materia system, do the following:

Make all gear crafted. No more exclusive items. Instead of dropping items directly, bosses will drop an abundance of materials. For example, Batraal, instead of dropping 1-3 items from a chest, his death will produce various pieces of hide and bone, even possibly a broken blade that can be refurnished into a sword for paladins. The abundance of items will allow people to get drops reliably, and then allow them to reliably turn them into gear and meld over and over. Thus, those who complete the dungeons the quickest and with the most ease are able to acquire the most materials and most chances for success in melding materia.

This system would actually impose skill into getting the best gear melded with multiple materia, it would keep crafters necessary and make the materia system more interesting. In addition, it would allow the current problem of terrible droprates to be eliminated, favoring players to get drops quickly and reliably each time, so they can then attempt multiple melds.

It would also allow groups of players to earn gil by selling these items to crafters and players who wish to meld themselves.

In Roaran's case this actually returns the game to how items were dropped. The feasibility of implementing this could be questionable but is far better in my opinion because it is more dynamic, not dumbed down.

[Zantetsuken]

What is 'best'?

The ideal fix:

All Blue rarity U/U items remain unmeldable but have multiple unique (non-materia) stats and special abilities. As the level cap increases, these items can be upgraded via quests to increase damage and stats. - These items would become the best unique ability items in the game and would be lore-focused- Ideal for specific/prestige character builds.

All Green rarity U/U items become rare U/U material drops**. - Crafters can then craft them into U/U Green rarity items - they would have one unique (non-materia) bonus and could be melded as normal but only to a cap of 2 materia. - These items would become the best customizable job gear in the game.- Ideal for party play/dungeons/boss fights

All crafted items can be melded with (up to) 5 materia like they are now - HQ items have a slight (~5%) success bonus for melding over NQ. - These items are the most customizable in the game and could potentially have the highest basic stat boosts - Ideal for soloing.

**IMPORTANT: To facilitate the melding and crafting of U/U items and gear. NPCs would be added to each DoH guild where a player can place an order (leve) to have crafters there make/meld it. This would be handled by crafters in the same way a local guildleve is. Upon success, the item is sent to the owner's mailbox.

EDIT: changed melding limit on NQ items to success boost for HQ.

[Dragon]

I like these ideas but methinks a system in which such gear binds on equip would have to be implemented.

Methinks this would be the easiest part to implement.

[Matsume]

The post never went off topic. I disagreed with the premise of the OP. That kind of rhetoric leads to suggestions like this:



You heard this a lot with the Armoury system. Now we have a significantly watered down version of not only the Armoury system, but the gear system as well. I would rather avoid this with materia.

The following are suggestions that I could support.

Asiaine:



Roaran:


In Roaran's case this actually returns the game to how items were dropped. The feasibility of implementing this could be questionable but is far better in my opinion because it is more dynamic, not dumbed down.

Did you even bother reading my suggestion? It's better than both of those combined!

What is 'best'?

The ideal fix:

All Blue rarity U/U items remain unmeldable but have multiple unique (non-materia) stats and special abilities. As the level cap increases, these items can be upgraded via quests to increase damage and stats. - These items would become the best unique ability items in the game and would be lore-focused- Ideal for specific/prestige character builds.

All Green rarity U/U items become rare U/U material drops**. - Crafters can then craft them into U/U Green rarity items - they would have one unique (non-materia) bonus and could be melded as normal but only to a cap of 2 materia. - These items would become the best customizable job gear in the game.- Ideal for party play/dungeons/boss fights

All crafted items can be melded to 4 materia if NQ, and 5 materia if HQ (with the current success rate). - These items become the most customizable items in the game and could potentially have the highest basic stat boosts - Ideal for soloing.

**IMPORTANT: To facilitate the melding and crafting of U/U items and gear. NPCs would be added to each DoH guild where a player can place an order (leve) to have crafters there make/meld it. This would be handled by crafters in the same way a local guildleve is. Upon success, the item is sent to the owner's mailbox.

Great Ideas /Agree, with the exception of HQ 5x meld. How would you get enough HQs to attempt a 5x meld? You would have to blow up hundreds...It just simply wouldn't work. Make all NQ craftables 5x and i'm game.