Ideas to discourage class stacking

[Karleguarth]

So uh..
Are you tired of people stacking the same class for primal fights,
and want a change for the current fights and possibly future contents?
If yes, read on...

(If not... [You can have this.]
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forum.php... j/k)

Don't wanna make this a huge wall of text.. as this will probably be one already.
I'll make it brief and short:

1. Introduce growing of damage resistance on mobs against repeated weaponskills

With some balancing I believe it can bring the primal fights to a point which,
if you heavily stack a certain class you will deal less damage as the fight gets longer,
but having a variation of classes can reduce the resistance to a unnoticeable amount.

2. Changing the party bonus requirements

Currently it's more hp, mp, accuracy for a full party, which makes a number of in-game stats / mechanism worthless. (DEX, ACC materia, certain weapsonskills)

What about a change to the requirements to become something like..
6 different classes in a party ---> Full party bonus
4 different classes in a party ---> Half party bonus

Why 6 and 4?

With 6, in a party of 8 players, minus the usual core 1 tank + 2 healers,
gives us 5 players left, in which you're allowed to have a certain class played by 2 players to maintain the full party bonus:
1xGLA + 2xCNJ + 2xStacked Class + 3xNon Stacked Classes = 6 different classes.

With 4,
1xGLA + 2xCNJ + 4xStacked Class + 1xNon Stacked Class = 4 different classes.

I believe this can somewhat bring ACC materia alive, while allowing people to choose whether keep on stacking, or develop more different tactics with a party with different classes.

Let's hear what do you think about this

[Rydin]

My suggestion to combat class stacking was this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Battle-Theory

[Roaran]

The only reason people stack certain classes is because certain classes have advantages during certain fights.

The only real measures of how easy a fight is how survivable and how fast the encounter can be overcome. Larger amounts of damage make the battle faster. So, a class that deals large amounts of damage will always be favorable. However, this also needs to be balanced with how survivable to class is. A class that takes a large amount of damage will be less favorable than the class that takes less.

So it is from these two that we can create a proportion that allows us to balance the classes.

The proportion is DAMAGE DONE/DAMAGE TAKEN

Damage Done
Damage done can be broken into many things. Mainly it is all the benefits of increased damage you bring to the party itself and to the battle as a whole. If you only deal 10 damage, but you have a buff that increases everyone elses damage by 900%, you would be considered valuable in the damage done department.

Damage Taken
This category is also broad, as it would include more than just the damage you directly take. It would have to account for party-wide buffs and healing.


An example of one formula you can use to decide which class is best, is simply this:

Take a regular party of 8 and each single member their various actions separately, and with it form a set of data to do the following;

(Direct Damage Done + Damage contributed through buffs)/(Damage Taken - Healing & Damage prevented through buffs)

Whatever class or person has the highest proportion is clearly the better. Obviously you would have to be able to quantify events that did not occur due to buffs, or certain actions. However, if you run certain tests similarily and control certain things, it would not be hard at all to determine such things.

Such an approach as I have outlined, based on a formula or a goal which ALL classes can reach through very different ways, allows for a lot of diversity in abilities among the classes and jobs.

Any arbitrary meddling with party makeups or weird incentives to try to get people to choose classes is completely wrong-headed and should be, and I'm sure will be, rejected.

[ChiefCurrahee]

So uh..
Are you tired of people stacking the same class for primal fights,
and want a change for the current fights and possibly future contents?
If yes, read on...

(If not... [You can have this.]
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forum.php... j/k)

Don't wanna make this a huge wall of text.. as this will probably be one already.
I'll make it brief and short:

1. Introduce growing of damage resistance on mobs against repeated weaponskills

With some balancing I believe it can bring the primal fights to a point which,
if you heavily stack a certain class you will deal less damage as the fight gets longer,
but having a variation of classes can reduce the resistance to a unnoticeable amount.

2. Changing the party bonus requirements

Currently it's more hp, mp, accuracy for a full party, which makes a number of in-game stats / mechanism worthless. (DEX, ACC materia, certain weapsonskills)

What about a change to the requirements to become something like..
6 different classes in a party ---> Full party bonus
4 different classes in a party ---> Half party bonus

Why 6 and 4?

With 6, in a party of 8 players, minus the usual core 1 tank + 2 healers,
gives us 5 players left, in which you're allowed to have a certain class played by 2 players to maintain the full party bonus:
1xGLA + 2xCNJ + 2xStacked Class + 3xNon Stacked Classes = 6 different classes.

With 4,
1xGLA + 2xCNJ + 4xStacked Class + 1xNon Stacked Class = 4 different classes.

I believe this can somewhat bring ACC materia alive, while allowing people to choose whether keep on stacking, or develop more different tactics with a party with different classes.

Let's hear what do you think about this

Great idea. I like the idea of having a variety of classes in a single PT.

Something that might also help with party job diversity is to have classes or jobs, come with "bubble buffs." Non-stacking buffs that the whole party receives.

For instance:
Gld/Pld = +5% def bonus
Mar/War = +5% attack bonus
Pug/Mnk = +5% HP bonus
Lnc/Drg = +5% crit hit bonus
Arc/Brd = +5% att speed up (haste)
Thm/Blm = +5% magic att Bonus
Con/Whm = +5% mag def bonus.

[Asiaine]

Hello,

Simple suggestion.

Cross-Class Weapon Skills.


Thank you.

[GreyJorildyn]

I would much rather see them tackle this from a party synergy point of view. Two points:

#1 Incaps should be spread out appropriately. At this time it seems OK, but could probably be improved a great deal. Mobs should require incap to some degree to deal increased amounts of damage. Take a battle like Adamantoise for example. Begins the battle in its shell, and you need to incap the shell for it pop out to deal damage, but then it retreats back in the shell. Things like that which have been mentioned in great detail about the forums already.


#2 If each class had some sort of party-wide buff they could activate, and added significance to the party's ability to handle situations, people would certainly think about adding classes more often.

Here are some examples with jobs, names and effects:

WAR - Battlecry - All party members receive "Attack +5%"
MNK - Mind's Eye - All party members receive "Double Attack +5%"
DRG - Exploitation - All party members receive "Critical Hit Rate +3%" when executing combos.
PLD - Righteous Aura - All party members receive "Physical Damage taken -5%"
WHM - Blessing of Menphina - All party members receive "Healing received +5%"
BLM - Elemental Fury - All party members receive "Elemental Damage +3%"
BRD - Rallying Call - All party members receive "Block, Parry, Evasion rates +10%" (bard should have a few to pick from outside of songs)

Would be cool if these buffs also somehow involved the deities somehow (ie. Aura of Halone, Cry of Halone, etc.) Each raid-wide buff provide the party with something that is the strength of that class. They would have to be assigned well to ensure that the buffs are worth inviting that party members. Of course the classes themselves need to be balanced to a degree and the buff should be the extra icing on an already sweet cake. SE could even do something creative link strength the buff in a light/full party, etc.

Basically like what Currahee has posted above.

[Rydin]

I would much rather see them tackle this from a party synergy point of view. Two points:

#1 Incaps should be spread out appropriately. At this time it seems OK, but could probably be improved a great deal. Mobs should require incap to some degree to deal increased amounts of damage. Take a battle like Adamantoise for example. Begins the battle in its shell, and you need to incap the shell for it pop out to deal damage, but then it retreats back in the shell. Things like that which have been mentioned in great detail about the forums already.


#2 If each class had some sort of party-wide buff they could activate, and added significance to the party's ability to handle situations, people would certainly think about adding classes more often.

Here are some examples with jobs, names and effects:

WAR - Battlecry - All party members receive "Attack +5%"
MNK - Mind's Eye - All party members receive "Double Attack +5%"
DRG - Exploitation - All party members receive "Critical Hit Rate +3%" when executing combos.
PLD - Righteous Aura - All party members receive "Physical Damage taken -5%"
WHM - Blessing of Menphina - All party members receive "Healing received +5%"
BLM - Elemental Fury - All party members receive "Elemental Damage +3%"
BRD - Rallying Call - All party members receive "Block, Parry, Evasion rates +10%" (bard should have a few to pick from outside of songs)

Would be cool if these buffs also somehow involved the deities somehow (ie. Aura of Halone, Cry of Halone, etc.) Each raid-wide buff provide the party with something that is the strength of that class. They would have to be assigned well to ensure that the buffs are worth inviting that party members. Of course the classes themselves need to be balanced to a degree and the buff should be the extra icing on an already sweet cake. SE could even do something creative link strength the buff in a light/full party, etc.

Basically like what Currahee has posted above.

Yea... i completely agree.... And we have been saying this for a minute... I'm hopeful that Akihiko Matsui will have these stuff covered come 2.0. He came in when Yoshi came in so I didn't expect him to transform it overnight... but I do feel like he has some good stuff cooking