Selling Ultimate Weapon Ultima Is Apparently Not Against the ToS

[KisaiTenshi]

That's the point. I am repeating the mentality displayed by him and other players who seem to believe that you have to had cleared something to speak about this issue. What's embarrassing is not looking at the context of what was posted only a few posts before. I keep saying that everyone should be able to talk about this issue, but players baring others because of some standard they set is just wrong. So for hyperbole, I set up my own standard which he didn't meet, thereby helping him understand how baring others isn't productive. It's really bizarre that I have to explain this.

No one reads anymore.

Welcome to the forums where people remember you for saying things they don't agree with, and then try to shame you into shutting up. That is a typical bully tactic.

It is against the ToS to engage in RMT, just like it's against the ToS to use third party tools. You can not say one is worse than the other, when it carries the same weight. There is nothing in the ToS about having played/cleared content before talking about it, because if that were the case there would be no way to get people hyped about it, and players wouldn't go on a virtual protest when things are changed in ways they don't like.

[Astral145]

This is nothing new. MMO players have been doing this for years. Its no different than selling used junk. Does it devalue the work others have put in to completing the content..... not really because 85% of the player base could give 2 kuponuts about that content. The main reason is most players will never have a chance to try that type of content let alone complete it.

If you believe that selling runs devalues the work that others put in to completing it is simply ridiculous. The player that buys the completion is most likely wanting the weapon glamour. Those who actually complete the content is doing it for fun and there lies the value not some trophy glamour weapon....

The real value of this type of content is that rush of excitement and joy after finally completing it. Blood, sweat and tears.... then finally bliss. A stick with a built in flashlight that will eventually go into your retainers inventory is only a reminder and nothing more.

Awesome Memories with your friends kicking @$$ is the real value.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I actually don't care about content selling. What I DO care about is when sellers use DF labels to make their ad spam go to the top of the list. Also, those screens aren't name shaming since obviously they aren't doing anything worth policing. :/

[alimdia]

I think this is a morally grey area and what is morally acceptable or not will vary from person to person. To me the impact of merc runs is not the same as someone actually cheating or exploiting the game.

To me someone using an exploit to kill kefka under 1 minute or someone duplicating items falls within the unacceptable side. Gil farmed by hundreds of bots can destabilize the economy by introducing too much currency, and such falls under the unacceptable side.

As far as I know the people selling mercenary runs are clearing the content legit, no exploits involved, and there's no currency being generated so the market is unaffected, so why would I care if someone bought a clear?

Someone mentioned other forms of RMT. Player-sold gold = doesn't affect the economy if the gil was not botted, the gil generation is still within the limits expected by the devs. Account selling? No much different than those level up boosts, as long as no cheats were used to level them, who cares?

[Jijifli]

As far as I know the people selling mercenary runs are clearing the content legit, no exploits involved, and there's no currency being generated so the market is unaffected, so why would I care if someone bought a clear?

Forgive me if it's already fixed, but I'm pretty sure there's currently a way to glitch UWU to stand there and let you beat the boss to death. Square already knows and it's marked a critical bug, so no need to describe how.

But it could be possible they use this method, not to mention the already known fact they take control of your account. They already refuse to respond to any in game tells, so I wouldn't put it past these parties to abuse a game breaking glitch for the fight too.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Forgive me if it's already fixed, but I'm pretty sure there's currently a way to glitch UWU to stand there and let you beat the boss to death. Square already knows and it's marked a critical bug, so no need to describe how.

But it could be possible they use this method, not to mention the already known fact they take control of your account. They already refuse to respond to any in game tells, so I wouldn't put it past these parties to abuse a game breaking glitch for the fight too.

First and foremost, why would them ignoring tells be proof of exploiting content? I tend to ignore tells from strangers too, especially if they're aggressive or rude. If someone went out of their way to criticise them selling runs, what motivation do they have to respond?

As for taking advantage of this exploit, why? Elysium two WF statics have cleared UwU multiple times now. Why in the world would they risk their accounts using an exploit that provides very little advantage when SE will ban you for them as proven with Ungarmax? The exploit you're referring to is not remotely long enough that you could say, ignore a mechanic or have multiple deaths and still clear. Ultima eventually just ends the fight regardless.

[Vnolan]

To me someone using an exploit to kill kefka under 1 minute falls within the unacceptable side.

Why? If they bought the clear, they still wouldn't have earned it and any exploit would be limited to the party.

Gil farmed by hundreds of bots can destabilize the economy by introducing too much currency, and such falls under the unacceptable side.

As far as I know there's no currency being generated so the market is unaffected, so why would I care if someone bought a clear?

There are buyers that pay with real money, buyers that pay with gil obtained through bots/RMT and buyers that pay with clean gil. If it was so easy to get the millions of gil needed through legit means, the sellers would be charging more than they already do.

when SE will ban you for them as proven with Ungarmax?

No one was permanently banned for using Ungarmax. If an account was permanently banned, that was because it already had some penalties.

Back to the topic:

May as well have gil sellers in party finder

"selling gil, contact discord for more info"

According to some in this topic, that should be allowed in the party finder. It doesn't say it's for real money and it could be in exchange for other services. If the GMs took it down, there would be no reason to not use the same discretion when dealing with the ads in the OP. If they didn't take it down, then that could allow gil selling for real money across the data center. Just goes to show how flawed the current system is.

[Alleo]

I think this is a morally grey area and what is morally acceptable or not will vary from person to person. To me the impact of merc runs is not the same as someone actually cheating or exploiting the game.

To me someone using an exploit to kill kefka under 1 minute or someone duplicating items falls within the unacceptable side. Gil farmed by hundreds of bots can destabilize the economy by introducing too much currency, and such falls under the unacceptable side.

But the question remains, why is using an exploit worse? I mean that also does not destroy the experience of a person that cleared it the normal way, right? Also its not like those that sell those clears are not doing any of the other stuff you mentioned. We had some of them using cheats in PVP and talked about it and they are also selling PVP ranks with it (something which does affect people way more than more gil, since the top 100 have special limited mounts). There is also some talk that some of those are using gathering bots and one FC even owns a whole ward..

And who knows what some of them are still doing. In the end RMT is against the ToS. Selling a clear for money means that real money was traded. And for Ultimate you even have account sharing.

IMO SE should take a clear stance in this. If you dont want parser then punish everyone that uses it (especially if call outs make mechanics easier..)and if you dont do that you cant just turn around and punish some that are just talking about it in a random group without any attack. If you punish RMT then do it with every single RMT. Otherwise its just double standards.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

But the question remains, why is using an exploit worse?

Because an exploit getting traction will tempt people to try it themselves. Should it go unpunished, it will become increasingly widespread, which does impact the overall game. Look at all the complaints surrounding bots. SE's incompetency has allowed it become worse. While I don't necessarily agree with mercenary work, it comes with a price tag that will heavily deter the vast majority of people who either don't have the disposable cash or think it's utterly asinine to spend that kind of money on a weapon.

IMO SE should take a clear stance in this. If you dont want parser then punish everyone that uses it (especially if call outs make mechanics easier..)and if you dont do that you cant just turn around and punish some that are just talking about it in a random group without any attack. If you punish RMT then do it with every single RMT. Otherwise its just double standards.

Parsers are going nowhere. It would destroy their raid scene, and they know it. Not to mention, unless they install client side detection, people will get around it fairly easily. RMT, on the other hand, does hurt the actual game. Keep in mind, indifference does not mean all of us agree with RMT. I simply choose not to let myself be bothered by it when Square refuses to actually do much of anything.

[Alleo]

Because an exploit getting traction will tempt people to try it themselves. Should it go unpunished, it will become increasingly widespread, which does impact the overall game.

I am not saying that they should not punish those that use an exploit and I also dont mean that they should punish those that use a parser. I am just pointing out that they should have a clear stance on these things and follow through with it on all cases. Accept parser for streamers? Fine, then dont punish regular players if they talk about it. Have someone use an exploit and punish them? Fine, then punish all those other cheaters too. Punish people that are selling Gil for money? Fine but punish those that sell content for money too.

That is my only point in this. That they should not take double standards in this. Either punish both sides for the same breaking or none.