[Request] Add alternative methods to getting old Feast rewards

[Awha]

If you accept the fact that cheating and rmt negatively affect Ultimate(and other similar content) by devaluing their achievement then you know very well that offering alternative methods that are easier than achieving top 100 is devaluing said achievements in the same way. It makes competition for the top 100 moot, why do it if others can just get it for nothing? The logic applies to rmt and cheating making Ultimate clears viewed with skepticism. Just with your version with top 100 rewards it would be sanctioned by SE. Would you say the same thing if SE somehow accepted cheating and rmt that it would be legitimate? Of course you wouldn't.

Now that you have accepted that people's achievements can be harmed by outside sources, there really isn't much more to talk to you about. Your entire argument is based on how it's "just a game" and "only you can belittle your own achievement" which you just so happened to argue against.

Personally no matter what people do to get their Ultimate kills it does not detract from my groups progress (have yet to kill either one) and when we do get our first kill no matter how long it takes it nothing will devalue that achievement to our group personally. If people think less of our kill because it was late so be it, does not have any impact on me. Even if they nerfed the hell out of Ultimate and created a story mode version, as long as they left an option to tackle it in its original state I would not be bothered.

Either way I do find it odd how you feel adding alternative methods to getting odd pvp items has the same weight as cheating.

Another thing I would love if SE offered a legitimized version of RMT, would give me something to use this gil on. If they made it so people with extra cash could buy crystal and sell it on the marketboard for gil I would be for that idea.

So I do not see where I accept that outside sources can impact ones achievements. I did say that certain things have been proven to have an negative impact on the game itself people leaving and such. Though say if hardcore pvpers did stop playing pvp due to the alternative means who is to say that because of that alternative means other players would not make up for those that stopped playing due to the change. At the core yeah it is just a game, if you want to leave because things may become easier fine, but that is a choice you have to make and is not one anyone cares about. That is all on you.

I will say this might be because of my history, and limitations but I have never let any outside factor detract from the value of something I have earned no matter how rare or common it is. Be it ingame or irl. So you will be hard pressed trying to convince me that someone else can belittle my accomplishments. Way I see it what you are proud of will always be on you, sure some people will be proud of some odd things or possibly even sick but if they are proud of it they are proud of it. Sure for some outside feedback can have change how one views something everyone is different.

In the context of a video game at the core it just boils down to the fact that one side wants the item, if someone is willing to pay someone whatever amount of money for something that is their choice and if they resort to cheating and get caught they will reap whatever consequences comes their way. I get what you are trying to do / say but I do not think the potential of poor behavior or misconduct is enough to lock people out of certain things. Nor do I feel cheating and misconduct are valid reasons to undermine achievements earned.

On a side note I am personally all for a story mode version for ultimate fights, while I do not understand the why someone would want such a thing, if it is possible and fits within the budget in terms of time and money I say go for it. Just as I never agreed with SE removing chat from feast simply because it had the potential to harm another player.

[Aviars]

It's actually amusing to watch you accept that cheating and rmt have negative impacts on the game and then immediately make the claim that you wouldn't care if the game was full of cheating and rmt as if there was no negative impact.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Either way I do find it odd how you feel adding alternative methods to getting odd pvp items has the same weight as cheating.

They both have similar mechanisms that devalue the content they are affecting. One just so happens, if it would happen, to be sanctioned by SE.

Another thing I would love if SE offered a legitimized version of RMT, would give me something to use this gil on. If they made it so people with extra cash could buy crystal and sell it on the marketboard for gil I would be for that idea.

You obviously know that isn't the type of rmt that is being discussed nor alluded to. Trying to downplay the effect of rmt on the game isn't tasteful.

So I do not see where I accept that outside sources can impact ones achievements.

If you can claim that rmt and cheating have a negative effect on the game then yes you are making that claim.

Be it ingame or irl. So you will be hard pressed trying to convince me that someone else can belittle my accomplishments.

Didn't you just try and dilute my argument with the cars because it was a reference to "irl." Lol, no words sir. We go full circle and you made conflicting statements again.

[Yasmina]

I would like there to be alternative ways to get the previous rewards.

I like PvP but for reasons of time I find it very difficult to participate in The Feast. In this season I decided to try my best and participate, but this week is almost totally dead and the waiting time is very high, yesterday wait 4 hours! all that to have bad luck and lose...

At the moment we are in season 8, I think it is a good time to add the rewards of season 1 and if you prefer, alternative versions of these rewards, so that they continue to have their exclusive versions of the people who participated during that season. (Everything except the trophies obviously)

[Awha]

Snip. . .

First when I mentioned the irl part that was a statement I made about me personally how I do not let others no matter detract from my accomplishments no matter how trivial they seem. I was trying to explain why you would be hard pressed trying to convince me personally that any outside factor has any baring on what I have accomplished be it in a video game or real life. Secondly, I said RMT and cheating do have a negative impact on the game not ones achievements. In my eyes the health of the game and ones achievements do not go hand-in-hand. As I mentioned in my example, say when our group does get our first ultimate kill, the people who bought their clears will have no impact on how my group feels about our kill. Just as I would assume if someone cheated to get top 100 one season those that earned it legitimately would not let the cheater detract from their accomplishment. I could be wrong on that point, since it is an assumption. May have worded it poorly but does that make sense in how I can feel something can have a negative impact on the game itself, but not my achievements?

I will agree with you I do not understand why people are okay with earning mounts differently but not the trophies. Legit question, you view the feast itself ultimate itself as a contest right? If you do I can understand why we have such differing views I do not view the game as a contest. So if something

[Aviars]

First when I mentioned the irl part that was a statement I made about me personally how I do not let others no matter detract from my accomplishments no matter how trivial they seem.

You were trying to refute my argument that real life and video games shouldn't be compared because "it's just a game." But now you are also claiming that you would feel the same way about irl as you do with the game. Please champ.

Secondly, I said RMT and cheating do have a negative impact on the game not ones achievements.

Mind stating what the negative effects are? Why will people leave the game if not the games toughest content being considered illegitimate and diluting the achievement of players? You keep saying there is a negative effect but keep claiming that you will be unaffected by it. You can't claim a negative and then claim people shouldn't feel affected by it.

I will agree with you I do not understand why people are okay with earning mounts differently but not the trophies.

And you will somehow say the first place trophy should be for everyone? Hah

[Awha]

You were trying to refute my argument that real life and video games shouldn't be compared because "it's just a game." But now you are also claiming that you would feel the same way about irl as you do with the game. Please champ.

Mind stating what the negative effects are? Why will people leave the game if not the games toughest content being considered illegitimate and diluting the achievement of players? You keep saying there is a negative effect but keep claiming that you will be unaffected by it. You can't claim a negative and then claim people shouldn't feel affected by it.

And you will somehow say the first place trophy should be for everyone? Hah

First I was simply saying it was not a fair comparison, because the reality it is a game the comparisons are not equal. when I mentioned my position regarding IRL I was simply stating that is my own personal view I follow be in-game or outside. People leave the game for various reasons though I do feel at the core the baseline reason is lack of enjoyment. Many things can factor into why a player stops to enjoy something could be lack of interest, or feeling cheated. As I mentioned in the other thread how you feel is how you feel, but in my eyes no change would inherently detract from enjoyment itself. Hard for me to explain, but I do not view my enjoyment as the same as your enjoyment. So what you find fun, I might not so a change to a system does not inherently detract from enjoyment as a whole since a change itself does not come with a positive or negative outcome by itself. That outcome is based around the perfection of others.
Can we honestly say for certain that if they did not make the items obtainable through differing means it would not positive outcome for the game mode itself? Either way we tried the exclusive model and feast queues get slower with each passing season. Granted that could be for a couple of reasons, but maybe it is time SE to try something different.


I never stated or meant to imply that you should not feel slighted by a change, since as I mentioned in the other thread and I think in this also (they bleed together) how you feel about something is 100% legitimate. My issue is that you are painting your feelings as the general consensus. That is why I say RMT, and cheating have shown to have a negative impact on a games health, and that for the most part is a agreed upon concusses but for me personally I have never let factors like that bother me because I do not let them. I mean I played Archage for the longest time because I enjoyed the game despite the cheaters, bug, p2w aspects.

You understand what I am saying? That is why I feel it is a choice to let an outside force have an impact on ones accomplishment. It is hard to me to see how it is not a choice since clearly not everyone feels the same way if the did we would not be discussion.

Also yeah I would be okay with trophies being obtainable with MGP for all I care.

[Aviars]

First I was simply saying it was not a fair comparison, because the reality it is a game the comparisons are not equal. when I mentioned my position regarding IRL I was simply stating that is my own personal view I follow be in-game or outside.

You are claiming a high ground when you are saying you are unaffected by everything around you in game and that other people should also feel the same.You then extend this to irl as part of your argument trying to say that "games" are less than real life yet you don't care about irl either. That's conflicting in itself, you make a irl argument yet try to say my irl comparison isn't "fair." Yes, again you can't have your cake and eat it.

People leave the game for various reasons though I do feel at the core the baseline reason is lack of enjoyment.

But you just claimed that nobody should be feeling this way in the first play in regards to cheating and rmt, at the very least you make that claim. This entire argument you have is that I shouldn't care because you don't care. Yet you say that rmt and cheating are having a negative effect because it takes away people's enjoyment? If you were to be consistent in your argument, you would be telling people like that that they shouldn't care because you don't care. You are making conflicting statements.

You can't claim that rmt and cheating are a negative if you also claim that it wouldn't affect you, because then you would have to say those people shouldn't care because you don't care about it.

I never stated or meant to imply that you should not feel slighted by a change

You keep claiming that I shouldn't care about this because it doesn't belittle my or other people's achievement. I really wish you would pick one argument or another.

My issue is that you are painting your feelings as the general consensus. That is why I say RMT, and cheating have shown to have a negative impact on a games health, but for me personally I have never let factors like that bother me because I do not let them.

And somehow you are trying to enforce your feelings onto me and others. Your main argument this entire time is that you don't care, so why should I care? This is why your arguments are conflicting with each other. You can't claim that cheating and rmt are negative to my face without accepting that people RIGHTFULLY feel that way. And if you can concede that fact then you can't keep trying to force your feelings onto myself or others. You accept there is a negative to cheating and rmt, great. Does that mean you accept there is a negative to making exclusive items non-exclusive? I'd love to hear your answer.

I also love the irony that you are trying to claim a general consensus and repeating it to me to try and change my mind. Please

You understand what I am saying?

I understand that you are arguing two different things that don't agree with each other.

Also yeah I would be okay with trophies being obtainable with MGP for all I care.

mhm, are you going to argue that should be general consensus?

[Awha]

Snip . . .

Not everything is an argument, how I view things outside the game was simply to show that you will be hard pressed in trying to convince me that anyone besides me can the ability to detract value from my accomplishment be it in game or out. I am not saying people should not feel the same way as I do, I am saying that no change in itself inherently detracts value from your accomplishment, since if a change inherently did that we would have no need for this discussion since everyone would be in agreement. Only claim I am making is that no change inherently devalues an accomplishment, effort, achievement. I never made the claim that you cannot feel a change detracts from your accomplishment on a personal level. What I am saying is that your perception is yours alone, just as mine is. Makes sense? Our perception is not universal thus I feel we should not be saying one is better then the other. I know I am not conveying this well, I am trying to explain that just because we feel a certain way about a change does not mean that is the only valid way to view it.

Please understand in my view I can see how cheating and RMT can have a negative impact on a games health, but I personally do not care if cheating and RMT go on. The moment I stop enjoying the game is the moment I stop playing it. Enjoyment is why I would stop playing, and yes many reasons can influence that choice, but in my eyes it was still my choice to let such things impact my enjoyment. If that makes sense. Do I understand why some would feel cheated if exclusive items became non-exclusive? Yes I would, but I would not care. Just as I would not care if the made an Ultimate story mode that had the same rewards as those that cleared it normally. I would still choose work through it no matter how long it takes for our group to kill it.

Hope I am making some sense. I am not trying to change your mind so you think how I feel is right, since you have no reason to. That is what I am trying to get out what reason does anyone have to care about a strangers achievements. or effort that went into earning something. Sure it sucks if someone belittles what you have done, but the effect of said comment is solely based off how we view it. As I mentioned in the other thread my goal was never to change your mind on you feeling slighted by any change regarding top 100 rewards, you are free to feel what you feel. What I am trying to express is why should any stranger care about another top 100 achievement? Are we to say that those that do not care about a top 100 achievement are wrong? What I am trying to say is most things we want is based around desire, I get you want to keep items exclusive because that is your desire, just as those that want the item because that is their desire. No right or wrong view point here, but you seem to think that your view is the only one that matters. I understand why you would want it to be exclusive, does not mean I have to agree or accept it. Just as I can understand rmt and cheating can have a negative impact on a game, but if I do not let that impact my personal enjoyment it has no effect on me. I know my view is not popular, I do agree something can only bother you if you let it.