Player skill level classifications

[KisaiTenshi]

You are right, saying everyone that plays hardcore is overcommit is wrong, however some people still do that time to time. "(how does one overcommit to hunts? Maybe by using that pesky third party hunt tool :thinking: )" that is simple. It differs from person to person but its basically spending more time then they can afford to, mainly though an addiction issue (though there are situations where that can happen outside that) For my personal example, my friend that i call crazy hardcore at times does overcommit at times. How do I know? the fact she complains about "have to" do some activity in x amount of time, usually some high bar goal in regards to gathering. She does stuff like that even though she heavily dislikes it, that is overcomiting

And that's exactly what I was talking about. We all know people like this.

If you're going to overcommit to the game, and not have time to eat, bathe, do laundry, go to work, etc then that goes right into addiction criteria.

Notice when people complain that they either have no time to setup statics, or people in statics complain that people keep bailing on them.

I've already played a MMORPG where I was bugged from dawn to dusk to play with people (that I would logout of chat), and people getting upset that I would play with some and not others. Overcommitment is simply not healthy.

[Solarra]

...I think there are multiple levels of skill...

Correct - unless something very strange is happening, player-skill will fall on a normal-distribution (or bell) curve, with relatively few players at either end and most somewhere in the middle.
Some people seem to think intensive tuition will change this but in fact, while the skill level of players may increase generally, the curve will stay the same shape. In other words the proportion of exceptionally good and bad players will stay the same.

My main criticism of your categories is that you are using terms which are frequently used by players and developers (especially developers), not to describe player skill but the time a player has available to play.

Looking through your list, your categories seem muddled and not particularly helpful.
You seem to be working on the assumption that skill will neatly align 100% with available time and preferred activities.
For example you assume that a player who values the social aspects of the game will be low-skilled, with the implication that the more skilled a player is, the less the social aspect matters. Are we to conclude that you think all highly skilled players have little to no social skills, or no interest in social interaction? That seems implausible since raiding and even dungeons to some extent, require good communication and team work.
I feel you are confusing player-skill with player-types.

Which brings me to my main point, why are you attempting to put players into categories according to skill?
Usually this sort of post goes along with some sort of idea about training the bad players or excluding them from certain content so the poster won't have to deal with them. While it's refreshing that you are not making any similar suggestions, there doesn't seem to be a point to this.

[Hamada]

Correct - unless something very strange is happening, player-skill will fall on a normal-distribution (or bell) curve, with relatively few players at either end and most somewhere in the middle.
Some people seem to think intensive tuition will change this but in fact, while the skill level of players may increase generally, the curve will stay the same shape. In other words the proportion of exceptionally good and bad players will stay the same.

My main criticism of your categories is that you are using terms which are frequently used by players and developers (especially developers), not to describe player skill but the time a player has available to play.

Looking through your list, your categories seem muddled and not particularly helpful.
You seem to be working on the assumption that skill will neatly align 100% with available time and preferred activities.
For example you assume that a player who values the social aspects of the game will be low-skilled, with the implication that the more skilled a player is, the less the social aspect matters. Are we to conclude that you think all highly skilled players have little to no social skills,
or no interest in social interaction? That seems implausible since raiding and even dungeons to some extent, require good communication and team work.
I feel you are confusing player-skill with player-types.

Which brings me to my main point, why are you attempting to put players into categories according to skill?
Usually this sort of post goes along with some sort of idea about training the bad players or excluding them from certain content so the poster won't have to deal with them. While it's refreshing that you are not making any similar suggestions, there doesn't seem to be a point to this.

Exactly, I might fit in the low casual on this list, I do level jobs but I do not do much outside that. I do the current normal version of raids and the current 24 man, but likely a lot less if my friend would not ask me to come along. She asks me to go for the pure social aspect, told me before she would hardly do anything without a friend because it feels empty and joyless.

With that said she talked to me about this list and explained why she would not fit anywhere on this list. highly skilled but values social aspect most of all. Does not do endgame contentbut crafts. She can keep up on uptime while watching others, and is very good at pointing out how well others are doing, regardless of job. Every day she explains clues about how well or poor someone is doing and ends up being right every time. (Todays exmaple would be showing me a log pic of someone being "new" to the game, but saw thier good play. Asked about it and found out the player does research. So when I say this it is not just about picking out obvious bad play but average and good play as well) Some newer players will admit as such, give tips to them, other times she gets backlash and ends up kicking people purely on toxic social interactions. Someone that cares only about productivity would tell her to deal with it, it is only 15 mintues, so you are not waiting on a replacment.

So her skill level would be one of the "hard cores" on the list, and yet she fits low causal from the socal aspect, plus mainly caring about crafting over battle content. She would also fit in the midcore statments, talking about they are critical over knowing rotations and keeping uptime, while once again, not doing savage. So like you said, this is definitely unhelpful list and will not work for some people at all. Hardcore, casual, etc is only amount of time players put in a day for time spent in the game, has nothing to do with skill or what they do in the game. When you try to link 2 or 3 unreleated aspects, you are bound to run into those that can't fit on the list.

[Vanitas]

And as usual people are overly offended by a thread that in no way shape or form warrants hostility, for no reason greater, than the sake of being offended.

[MoroMurasaki]

And that's exactly what I was talking about. We all know people like this.

If you're going to overcommit to the game, and not have time to eat, bathe, do laundry, go to work, etc then that goes right into addiction criteria.

Notice when people complain that they either have no time to setup statics, or people in statics complain that people keep bailing on them.

I've already played a MMORPG where I was bugged from dawn to dusk to play with people (that I would logout of chat), and people getting upset that I would play with some and not others. Overcommitment is simply not healthy.

So are you saying that only people who are foregoing basic hygiene and life are hardcore?

Or are you trying to imply all hardcore raiders must be stuffing hot pockets in their mouths and wearing dirty clothes?

I can't imagine anyone thinking that ignoring the necessities of life are okay to ignore in favor if a videogame. I'm sure they're out there but they most definitely aren't as common as people who identify as hardcore raiders.

As usual you not only miss the point but change the benchmark to suit a strawman argument only you see. Classic.

You are right, saying everyone that plays hardcore is overcommit is wrong, however some people still do that time to time. "(how does one overcommit to hunts? Maybe by using that pesky third party hunt tool :thinking: )" that is simple. It differs from person to person but its basically spending more time then they can afford to, mainly though an addiction issue (though there are situations where that can happen outside that) For my personal example, my friend that i call crazy hardcore at times does overcommit at times. How do I know? the fact she complains about "have to" do some activity in x amount of time, usually some high bar goal in regards to gathering. She does stuff like that even though she heavily dislikes it, that is overcomiting

With all due respect the argument "some people commit too much time to this game" does nothing to defend "all hardcore players commit too much time to this game"... I see where you went with it but it really does nothing to back up Kisai's 'point' if that had been your intent. Plenty of people do very well at FFXIV without missing out on another facet of life.

[Sebazy]

Meanwhile, I was getting Strava KoMs and maintaining a successful career whilst also raiding hardcore during ARR/early Gordias.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The irony is Sfia, who did 14-16 hour WF prog on Ultimate, not only had a whole healthy meal plan organized but also a mandatory sleep regiment. He spoke about it on Frosty's podcast. In all likelihood, he probably ate better foods than most people do normally. Perhaps it's best not to make assumptions about how other people play.

[Hamada]

With all due respect the argument "some people commit too much time to this game" does nothing to defend "all hardcore players commit too much time to this game"... I see where you went with it but it really does nothing to back up Kisai's 'point' if that had been your intent. Plenty of people do very well at FFXIV without missing out on another facet of life.

I was not backing up Kisai's point, more explaining what they truly meant. I repeat myself, I disagree that all hardcore players = the extreme they said, I am also in disagreement they implied the friend I have also does that. I simply said some people can overcomit to this game by spending too much time on it, and how much that means varies from person to person. With my example, they are overcomiting because they do not want to be spending that amount of time they did those few weeks, but did anyway, and did so because there was a "need to" over doing it because they wanted to. You asked how does one overcommit to hunts, and I was answering that question, has nothing to do with 3rd party tools.

[KisaiTenshi]

I was not backing up Kisai's point, more explaining what they truly meant. I repeat myself, I disagree that all hardcore players = the extreme they said, I am also in disagreement they implied the friend I have also does that. I simply said some people can overcomit to this game by spending too much time on it, and how much that means varies from person to person. With my example, they are overcomiting because they do not want to be spending that amount of time they did those few weeks, but did anyway, and did so because there was a "need to" over doing it because they wanted to. You asked how does one overcommit to hunts, and I was answering that question, has nothing to do with 3rd party tools.

Moro was trying to find insult where none was implied.

I speak from experience. If you start spending so much time in the game that you're not enjoying it, it feels like a chore, and can't drop it because you might let down your friends, then you've overcommited to it, and it will end badly. The problem is that a small amount of people who would call themselves hardcore, can't see the big picture that once you let the game control your social interactions, you're planning your life around a game. If you're not being paid by Twitch/Youtube to play the game, you have really no reason at all to give the game your social life.

[shibeouya]

IMO there's different kinds of "casual" as there's different kinds of "hardcore" that can't quite be captured by bullet points like this.

How would you call someone who doesn't do savage, yet has done all relic, collected all orchestrions, TT cards, sightseeing logs, mounts, minions? I would definitely qualify such a person as hardcore, probably more than some people grinding Savage. There's a bunch of people that live for achievement hunting that I know of and consider truly hardcore players, despite them not doing much savage.