Player skill level classifications

[KisaiTenshi]

What are your thoughts on this classification list?

You're trying to arbitrarily label and classify players who don't fit in a box.

"Casual" in it's most literal sense is a player who does not do anything that requires a time commitment. So most of your Tank and Healers in duties, regardless of skill level, are easily this, along with people who just login to do weekly things. "I got 15 minutes, what do I play?"

"Hardcore" in it's most literal sense are players who overcommit to everything. Duties, Raids, Hunts, Crafting, get everything to 70 on as fast as possible. And also complain that there's nothing to do, yet still grind away. "I got 8 hours a day to grind out tomes/raid to gear all my jobs"

Anything in between are players who know and set their limits. They don't commit to things they just don't want to do, maybe they will do it later, maybe never. You don't need 9 ranks for this.

Those labels have nothing to do with skill. The game doesn't even provide a way to gauge skill level, and there is no actual way to gauge skill level since it will depend on how well someone is at working with random PUG's, not just FC's or Statics. Someone who can only perform well with the team they form can only be fairly measured against another team of the same with the same goals. Otherwise it's an apples and bananas comparison. A sports analogy would be picking the entire college basketball team who trained together, and PUG's being picking random strangers that you saw in an outdoor basketball court at some point. Maybe you luck out and it's a good team, but in general it will still be an under-performing team.

The words usually used to describe a skill level are "Beginner" / "Amateur" for players who are new. After that point everyone is experienced and any further classification is meaningless without context. Certainly no content in FFXIV is worth dedicating hours per day unless you're being paid (eg Twitch/Youtube/Patreon, eSports, etc) and if you're making enough to make a full time job of it, then you can call yourself a Professional. (People don't generally pay players to be bad at games unless that's their stichk.) So one might be really good at just one piece of content, and average at everything else, that doesn't elevate their gaming skill level. Just because someone is really good at Monopoly doesn't make them automatically good at Scrabble.

[Coratanni]

I'm somewhere between casual, and midcore. Good enough for the first couple of savages and all but one of the extremes(I haven't looked into shinryu yet as I have soooo much on my plate in this game already, even with all 70's), but I don't care about potions, and I am not fast enough as a mouse clicker for perfect rotations AND watching mechanics.

I did my time as a high midcore or low hardcore in my last mmo. I'll never let myself do that again.

[Hamada]

News flash - there isn't. For some people who have time to spare this game is their one big hobby. It's fine if it isn't yours but to put someone down by implying they have no self control just because they're doing better than you is really shortsighted and ignorant.

You are right, saying everyone that plays hardcore is overcommit is wrong, however some people still do that time to time. "(how does one overcommit to hunts? Maybe by using that pesky third party hunt tool :thinking: )" that is simple. It differs from person to person but its basically spending more time then they can afford to, mainly though an addiction issue (though there are situations where that can happen outside that) For my personal example, my friend that i call crazy hardcore at times does overcommit at times. How do I know? the fact she complains about "have to" do some activity in x amount of time, usually some high bar goal in regards to gathering. She does stuff like that even though she heavily dislikes it, that is overcomiting

[KisaiTenshi]

You are right, saying everyone that plays hardcore is overcommit is wrong, however some people still do that time to time. "(how does one overcommit to hunts? Maybe by using that pesky third party hunt tool :thinking: )" that is simple. It differs from person to person but its basically spending more time then they can afford to, mainly though an addiction issue (though there are situations where that can happen outside that) For my personal example, my friend that i call crazy hardcore at times does overcommit at times. How do I know? the fact she complains about "have to" do some activity in x amount of time, usually some high bar goal in regards to gathering. She does stuff like that even though she heavily dislikes it, that is overcomiting

And that's exactly what I was talking about. We all know people like this.

If you're going to overcommit to the game, and not have time to eat, bathe, do laundry, go to work, etc then that goes right into addiction criteria.

Notice when people complain that they either have no time to setup statics, or people in statics complain that people keep bailing on them.

I've already played a MMORPG where I was bugged from dawn to dusk to play with people (that I would logout of chat), and people getting upset that I would play with some and not others. Overcommitment is simply not healthy.

[MoroMurasaki]

And that's exactly what I was talking about. We all know people like this.

If you're going to overcommit to the game, and not have time to eat, bathe, do laundry, go to work, etc then that goes right into addiction criteria.

Notice when people complain that they either have no time to setup statics, or people in statics complain that people keep bailing on them.

I've already played a MMORPG where I was bugged from dawn to dusk to play with people (that I would logout of chat), and people getting upset that I would play with some and not others. Overcommitment is simply not healthy.

So are you saying that only people who are foregoing basic hygiene and life are hardcore?

Or are you trying to imply all hardcore raiders must be stuffing hot pockets in their mouths and wearing dirty clothes?

I can't imagine anyone thinking that ignoring the necessities of life are okay to ignore in favor if a videogame. I'm sure they're out there but they most definitely aren't as common as people who identify as hardcore raiders.

As usual you not only miss the point but change the benchmark to suit a strawman argument only you see. Classic.

You are right, saying everyone that plays hardcore is overcommit is wrong, however some people still do that time to time. "(how does one overcommit to hunts? Maybe by using that pesky third party hunt tool :thinking: )" that is simple. It differs from person to person but its basically spending more time then they can afford to, mainly though an addiction issue (though there are situations where that can happen outside that) For my personal example, my friend that i call crazy hardcore at times does overcommit at times. How do I know? the fact she complains about "have to" do some activity in x amount of time, usually some high bar goal in regards to gathering. She does stuff like that even though she heavily dislikes it, that is overcomiting

With all due respect the argument "some people commit too much time to this game" does nothing to defend "all hardcore players commit too much time to this game"... I see where you went with it but it really does nothing to back up Kisai's 'point' if that had been your intent. Plenty of people do very well at FFXIV without missing out on another facet of life.

[Solarra]

...I think there are multiple levels of skill...

Correct - unless something very strange is happening, player-skill will fall on a normal-distribution (or bell) curve, with relatively few players at either end and most somewhere in the middle.
Some people seem to think intensive tuition will change this but in fact, while the skill level of players may increase generally, the curve will stay the same shape. In other words the proportion of exceptionally good and bad players will stay the same.

My main criticism of your categories is that you are using terms which are frequently used by players and developers (especially developers), not to describe player skill but the time a player has available to play.

Looking through your list, your categories seem muddled and not particularly helpful.
You seem to be working on the assumption that skill will neatly align 100% with available time and preferred activities.
For example you assume that a player who values the social aspects of the game will be low-skilled, with the implication that the more skilled a player is, the less the social aspect matters. Are we to conclude that you think all highly skilled players have little to no social skills, or no interest in social interaction? That seems implausible since raiding and even dungeons to some extent, require good communication and team work.
I feel you are confusing player-skill with player-types.

Which brings me to my main point, why are you attempting to put players into categories according to skill?
Usually this sort of post goes along with some sort of idea about training the bad players or excluding them from certain content so the poster won't have to deal with them. While it's refreshing that you are not making any similar suggestions, there doesn't seem to be a point to this.

[Vanitas]

And as usual people are overly offended by a thread that in no way shape or form warrants hostility, for no reason greater, than the sake of being offended.

[Sebazy]

Meanwhile, I was getting Strava KoMs and maintaining a successful career whilst also raiding hardcore during ARR/early Gordias.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The irony is Sfia, who did 14-16 hour WF prog on Ultimate, not only had a whole healthy meal plan organized but also a mandatory sleep regiment. He spoke about it on Frosty's podcast. In all likelihood, he probably ate better foods than most people do normally. Perhaps it's best not to make assumptions about how other people play.

[Hamada]

With all due respect the argument "some people commit too much time to this game" does nothing to defend "all hardcore players commit too much time to this game"... I see where you went with it but it really does nothing to back up Kisai's 'point' if that had been your intent. Plenty of people do very well at FFXIV without missing out on another facet of life.

I was not backing up Kisai's point, more explaining what they truly meant. I repeat myself, I disagree that all hardcore players = the extreme they said, I am also in disagreement they implied the friend I have also does that. I simply said some people can overcomit to this game by spending too much time on it, and how much that means varies from person to person. With my example, they are overcomiting because they do not want to be spending that amount of time they did those few weeks, but did anyway, and did so because there was a "need to" over doing it because they wanted to. You asked how does one overcommit to hunts, and I was answering that question, has nothing to do with 3rd party tools.