Omega and future raid concerns

[Renato]

So apparently SE will be wrapping up the Omega raid storyline in th3 4.4 update. This has been one of my least favorite raids not in the sense that it's just not interesting because it's cool to see old bosses and listen to updated themes...although I do feel that the tournament-like storyline is a bit lazy.

So apparently SE will be wrapping up the Omega raid storyline in th3 4.4 update. This has been one of my least favorite raids not in the sense that it's just not interesting because it's cool to see old bosses and listen to updated themes...although I do feel that the tournament-like storyline is a bit lazy.

My real gripe and concern with this basically comes from the fact that fights are hurdled by Normal and Savage.

From what I understand, the savage and ultimate are a very small percentage of FFXIV. A lot of people don't have time to invest in finding a dedicated static, let alone find learning groups to get through a fight. The people who do world firsts seem to devote HOURS into learning a fight to the point that it takes days, sometimes weeks to finish. WHY would they lock raid fights behind something like this? Exdeath's 2nd form is Savage only, Kefka's 2nd Form is Savage only...some people will never get to experience that because they don't do that kind of content. And for the people who do, more power to you. I think it's awesome and watching Ultimate was great but there is no reason to do this when it wasn't done previously with Alexander or Bahamut.

Just include the fights in Normal and have a Savage mode like before. Hopefully this isn't something SE plans on continuing with. I don't see why it's so difficult to make challenging content that isn't too demanding along the line of Shinryu or Nidhogg which I thought were great when they first came out.

[Remedi]

Because they want ppl to play savage as such they've started to have savage only phases to entice ppl into trying it also they lowered the barrier of entry so that as much ppl as possible can try it

[Leglibe]

You're free to not like the story, but just because you play the game doesn't mean you're entitled to have every piece of content given to you. Neo ExDeath and God Kefka are rewards for raiders who are able to beat the previous 4 fights in their respective tier. If you want to do that content, then just learn your class and the fights and do it. It doesn't take as much time as you seem to think. Even if all the time you have is a lockout or 2 a week, it's still possible to do.

Also, while you're right in saying that a small percentage of the playerbase tries Ultimate fights, the percentage of the playerbase that tries savage fights isn't as small as you seem to think. Plenty of people can at least do o5-6s. In SB, they've made the first 2 fights of the tier very accessible for people to get into savage if they haven't done it before, so more people try it out than before. If you want to see the high-tier fights, then progress through the lower-tier fights like everyone else did.

[Renato]

You're free to not like the story, but just because you play the game doesn't mean you're entitled to have every piece of content given to you. Neo ExDeath and God Kefka are rewards for raiders who are able to beat the previous 4 fights in their respective tier.

And I totally get that...But at the same time, this wasn't the case before since ARR and HW expansion. Why change it now to give Savage Raiders some kind of reward in the form of a fight and locking normal players out when they weren't doing that before? Savage raiders could have still gotten that fight and would have gotten a better reward/trophy in the form of a weapon or gear that normal players couldn't achieve. THAT was the real reward in my opinion. I can accept that fact that I will never have that gear but to completely lock out a portion of the a fight just seems dumb to me.

[Vaer]

And I totally get that...But at the same time, this wasn't the case before since ARR and HW expansion.

That is actually not correct. In ARR there was only one difficulty and non raiders were totally locked out of the story/fights. The "Savage" version of Second Coil was a one off which was tuned closer to an Ultimate fight than a current savage one. In HW they added the normal mode because people were complaining about not being able to see the story.

Anyways, having a normal mode of the extra forms would ruin it IMO. They would have to cut so many mechanics so a "normal mode" group could clear it, it would turn it into a training dummy almost.

"Never" is a strong word. The savage raids get gradually nerfed so you can eventually go do it anyways.

[Silvertongue]

Why change it now to give Savage Raiders some kind of reward in the form of a fight and locking normal players out when they weren't doing that before?...I can accept that fact that I will never have that gear but to completely lock out a portion of the a fight just seems dumb to me.

The reason they added normal fights in the first place was to give non raiding players access to the raid story. Coils had no such thing and second coil was gated in that you had to get good and clear first coil to even attempt it, same with final coil requiring a second coil clear to even zone in. If you want to experience the savage exclusive parts of content you need to be good enough to get there in terms of your ability to play your class AND handle mechanics. Put in the time to be worthy of experiencing that challenge the bar isn't as high as people think it is.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

And I totally get that...But at the same time, this wasn't the case before since ARR and HW expansion. Why change it now to give Savage Raiders some kind of reward in the form of a fight and locking normal players out when they weren't doing that before? Savage raiders could have still gotten that fight and would have gotten a better reward/trophy in the form of a weapon or gear that normal players couldn't achieve. THAT was the real reward in my opinion. I can accept that fact that I will never have that gear but to completely lock out a portion of the a fight just seems dumb to me.

Because raiders requested something unique for them. Creator severely reduced the challenging aspect of Savage, thus Neo Exdeath and God Kefka were an attempt to keep Savage feeling special. While Ultimate filled the challenge demand. Bear in mind, Savage inevitably becomes incredibly easy to unsync. Neo Exdeath will be a shell of his former self if attempted i370 or i400 gear. So they opportunity for people to gather friends together and clear it down the road remains. Ultimate, on the other hand, purposely utilized preexisting assets to limit its development cost and time. The actual impact on other content due to its implementation is likely very minimal. I'd argue maybe the dungeon omitted in odd numbered patches at most accounts for Ultimate.

From a more financial perspective, I suspect they made this changes to keep raiders subscribed. It's a very common tread that many raiders either enter a raid log cycle or simply leave entirely until the next tier. They have little to no reason to bother with odd numbered patches otherwise.

At the end of the day, this is a theme park MMO, which entails "something for everyone." Virtually every aspect of this game caters towards the casual playerbase. Raiders simply want our slice of the piece too, however small it may be.

[jameseoakes]

Because raiders requested something unique for them. .

Isn't that now filled by ultimate?

[Vidu]

Isn't that now filled by ultimate?

Right now there is a thread asking for more midcore-content - Ultimate is clearly content for the "hardcore-elite", while Savage can and is been done by more casual-midcore-groups aswell.

Even midcore-raiders want something unique and special and intresting about their fights - and so everyone gets something: The non-raider gets to see the story and some nice fights, the more invested raider gets to see cooler version of those fights and the hardcore-raider who wants a real challenge gets Ultimate.

I understood people complaining about the Coil-story being locked behind fights like T9 - but c'mon. Complaining about fights being locked behind actually doing the fight? Thats just silly at this point...

I think people here should cut Renato a break on this and especially other people who have voiced the same concerns, I understand where this is coming from because we all want our money's worth from this game. Considering that it was neat to see Neo Exdeath & God Kefka from our old games we used to play that it is kind of messed up how it is gated by skill.

Why couldn't it have been set to where that Savage just gives the better reward, and a normal (well more on the extreme side) version of God Kefka & Neo Exdeath just give a reward based on Extreme difficulty rather than Savage Difficulty? Also this will give players more room to learn, and ACTUALLY PREPARE TO DO SAVAGE NEXT. I hate to say it but you can't expect 8 people to get on the same page right from the get go on a Savage Random PF raid, I had so many groups where it was one constant failure after another. I'm also annoyed by the veiled elitism being presented but those certain players don't want to outright say it, Yoshida I don't wish to criticize you but you're fueling something unintentionally toxic.

Also don't get me started on statics, those are constant drama ride.

Because for me Savage shouldnt just be "same fight but with higher numbers and more AoEs" but a more complex, intresting, challenging and engaging fight.
When I'm raiding I dont want to get recycled content all the time, I want something that was made and meant for me and the type of content I'm looking for, not just better rewards. I will repeat myself: For me the fight itself is a kind of reward.

For me this whole thing presents itself the other way round: People who dont want to put in the effort, but still want to have EVERYTHING. We had a thread last week or so with someone asking for an easy version of Ultimate... and no, just no. If you want to see that content - go and do it. You "just" have to put in the effort to learn the fight and your job and yes, also the effort to find a decent group. But guess what? Most hobbies require that once you wanna do more than just entry level. And not everything has to be dumbed down to that entry level, sorry.
Leave some things as reward for those who want to achieve and see more - and if you're amongst those... go and achieve it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Isn't that now filled by ultimate?

No, because Neo and God Kefka were designed to make Savage feel special for players who enjoy that level of difficult. Ultimate is a step beyond that; answering the demand for Midas and Gordias levels. Raiders from the midcore to hardcore level have two, two unique encounters—one of which means progressively easier as our ilvl increases. Is it really too much to ask we get to have stuff too when 99% of this game favors casual players?