The recent “All battle classes at level 50” trend – Plans to adjust the EXP received?

[Onizuka]

Hello, adventurers.

This is a long post on the high amount of Experience Points we can get, but not simply about that. If you miss one line, you won't understand my real point, so please read it only if you're interested in Adventure.

Every now and then I check other Eorzeans' profiles on The Lodestone and recently (well, since last year actually... It's been a while since I wanted to post this.) I've been noticing this trend to have all the battle classes at level 50.

I know personally many good adventurers with every Disciple of War and Magic at 50, so this is not a post to judge your play style nor time spent in Eorzea!
This is a Topic about a concern I've been having since I noticed this trend and after personally experiencing this super fast way of leveling up.

In another Topic, I talked about possible predictions on the “Legatus Battle” content of patch 1.23, thinking that they might raise the level cap by then.
And if you think about it, with the current system, how much time will it take you to go from level 50 to 55? A couple of days?

My point is simply that. Is it really enjoyable to reach the max level so fast?

Let me illustrate my last own personal Adventure, relating to what I believe will become an issue in the long run.

Yesterday I needed to obtain some materials for crafting, so I went on an Adventure in three different areas of Eorzea.
Before starting, I had Pugilist at level 47 with 17.271 EXP (looking at the data and time on my screenshots); I went to the Twelveswood and fought level 40-42 Wild Hogs for around 20 minutes, getting a few Boar Hides.



Then, I moved to the west in Coerthas and battled level 40-42 Brutal Sheeps for 45 minutes, getting 25 Karakul Fleeces.



Later that evening, I went to Camp Iron Lake and, after some relaxing gathering, I slayed for 40 minutes the level 40-42 Young Raptors near Oakwood, obtaining 25 Raptor Skins.



And my total EXP was... what it is now, 62.913 EXP. That's over 45.000 EXP in less than 2 hours... and without me actually wanting them.
In my opinion, 10.000 EXP would have been enough for this time spent of farming materials against monsters 5-7 levels below mine.

This is the reason why I had already stopped doing Regional Levequests and Behests with my Pugilist; if I'd do them, I'd be level 50 before wanting it, and I want to be a level 50 Disciple of the Hand first and do my final Pugilist levels as a Monk. That is my Choice of Adventure.
One of the last times I did a Behest in Camp Bald Knoll I got over 8.000 as EXP Bonus (neglected Behest), so of course I stopped doing them as a Pugilist. Look, it's over 8.000!



At the same time, I'm leveling up Conjurer and Thaumaturge, currently at 23, and I can say that it's not that fast to level them up. It's not slow, either. I think it's just fair. It'll be easier, however, after level 30 (also thanks to Company Leves) and even more after 40.


Don't misunderstand my post into something it isn't, though.
The “problem” doesn't really concern me, as I've the control to decide what leveling up and what not, so I can just stop leveling Pugilist like I did now and focus on something else until patch 1.21.
But thinking about new adventurers... Will this system really make them enjoy the Adventure of leveling up? A system where you can go from level 45 to 50, the final and theoretically hardest levels to achieve (the end EXP needed for Disciples of the Hand & Land is just fair, for instance), in a single day?

In my opinion, leveling up should be an Adventure. Visit different places, trying out different monsters, no matter if they yield less EXP, but at least you vary and you create memories worth to be remembered.
This is what I always did. I moved from areas to areas and battled different fiends, experienced different challenges. I may not have a single battle class at level 50 yet, but I surely enjoyed my leveling up! [Until they increased the EXP gain so much, that is.]

Yesterday – that same day I was farming materials – while I was in Treespeak, just before starting to fight hogs, I wanted to pay a visit to the glowing tree and there I stumbled across a group of defeated adventurers: I raised one and then they invited me to join them in battling the Notorious Monster Haughtpox Bloatbelly. I was the only level 47, but I could do my part and we defeated him right after his minions.





Probably something most of you already did many moons ago, but it was my first High-level Notorious Monster and, even if I wasn't at max level or with ultimate equipments, I Greatly enjoyed it nonetheless.

Just like when leveling up, before the huge increase in EXP that forced me to stop, with my pace and taking my time.
The last EXP party I had dates at the 1st of January: I accepted because it had passed some time since my last one, but when I reached Camp Broken Water I noticed the surprise of a Thaumaturge 4 (or was it 5?) levels above mine and in fact during the 5-stars levequest I couldn't do much with monsters being defeated incredibily quickly with AoE spells. When I said to the adventurer that invited me that “Maybe you're a bit too high for me...”, he answered: “The end reward is the same for everyone, though.”. This is when I smiled, replying: “You mean the EXP? I don't care about that, I'm interested in the challenge. ”, and I kindly left the party. What fun would have I had in that?

This is just an example of the type of adventurer that, unfortunately, craves only for reaching the max level as soon as possible, getting el suuuuper equip and that's it. If you're one of them, please don't be offended by this. I just don't understand how much “fun” there can be in participating in a party like the one I just mentioned and leveling up like this.

That said, I hope that when 2.0 is released this system will change, to allow new adventurers to enjoy their travel from level 1 to max, earning it rather than the couple of days it'd take now to go from 50 to 55: Yes, you'll be able to do almost immediately the new super endgame content, but after that...?

In the past, we remember there was a limit to the max Experience Points gained from a monster: even if it was 10 levels above yours, there was a set amount of EXP you could obtain. Now with EXP Chains you can easily get 1.000+ EXP from a single monster.
I'm not saying to return to that (clearly not a rewarding system), but a better balance is surely needed. Unless we really want everyone with a Paragon's Crown , supposedly one of hardest Achievements to get.

Like I said, the pace of leveling up until level 30 is fine, the adjustments should be made after that.
I think I read another thread in the past of another adventurer expressing his concerns on how quickly we can level up the battle classes now, but he wasn't understood. “WHAT? Are you asking to give us LESS EXP? How dare you! Did you smoke some of the Twelveswood funguars or what??”, that's what one might think if my point is misunderstood, too, but not if we look at the Eorzea on the long run like I'm doing. Luckily anyway, I've my Flame-proof Subligar equipped.


If other adventurers feel like answering and telling me if they sincerely enjoyed their journey in reaching level 50 in a few days (or in one), maybe with just the same monsters in Camp Broken Water or with raptors in La Noscea/Coerthas, and if that's fine for them, or would prefer a little slower pace in the leveling up process (that is, a bit less EXP gained) until more variety in the camps/monsters choices is introduced (most likely with 2.0), then please do so.

But I'd also like to ask the community reps, as I don't remember ever reading a response of the plans on this, if the dev team is aware of the situation and can recognize this fast way of leveling up as an issue to be adjusted, like I illustrated thinking about future adventurers, or not.
That's all.

Thanks for reading!

Cloudio Onizuka


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Update: Since my real point and purpose of this Topic was apparently by many (not so many, actually, which kinda surprised me!) misinterpreted even if I wrote a warning at the beginning, that is not simply asking “The EXP is too much, reduce it!” or “Give us a better journey (for grinding)”, I link my following two posts, together with a video that is perfect to give a better idea of what I tried to say in this thread:
- Post 1
- Post 2
- Video: A story of Adventurers of times past

[Antanias]

This game is also being built with a level 99 cap in mind, so we might end up seeing 10,000,000 exp to get from 98-99 when we reach that point

[Felis]

This game is also being built with a level 99 cap in mind, so we might end up seeing 10,000,000 exp to get from 98-99 when we reach that point

Too low
Ragnarok has 100,000,000 exp from 98 to 99 ^^
By the way, in Ragnarok you need 102,468 exp from 49 to 50. Just a little bit more than in FF XIV. 1-50 is a walk, the real grind begin with 70+ I say

[Colino]

Too low
Ragnarok has 100,000,000 exp from 98 to 99 ^^
By the way, in Ragnarok you need 102,468 exp from 49 to 50. Just a little bit more than in FF XIV. 1-50 is a walk, the real grind begin with 70+ I say

Oh I remember that game... Maybe 40 something hours to get to 98... Then a good 100 hours to do 98-99! lol

[Soukyuu]

Oh I remember that game... Maybe 40 something hours to get to 98... Then a good 100 hours to do 98-99! lol

Getting from 98-99 required you to get as much exp as 1-98.... that was a grind, unless you played on a highrate server lol. Took me about 6 months to get to 99 on my priest, but i was taking my time.

[Matsume]

This game is also being built with a level 99 cap in mind, so we might end up seeing 10,000,000 exp to get from 98-99 when we reach that point

Where did you get this informaion...?

[Phobos]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I'd like to point out two quick facts relating to this "problem" as outlined by OP:

1. Getting a class to max level in a few days to a few weeks is not uncommon in MMO's nowadays.
2. Square-Enix has stated before that they did not want to recreate FFXI with this game. Just because FFXI had a long grind to 75 prior to abyssea does not mean anyone wants this game to have that.

I just do not see the point to complaining about leveling being too easy in this game. Leveling is actually quite a slow process if you don't party (which is awesome because it encourages cooperative play, even if it's still a grind it's a bit more fun). Making leveling more difficult goes against the trend of most other MMO's on the market, which now includes FFXI (which to be honest, aside from Diablo 2 was the hardest game I've to get a character to max level prior to level sync and abyssea). While I think many people enjoyed that the difficulty in FFXI leveling resulted in players for the most part having to limit the total number of jobs they were able to level up, I think it's become apparent that that model is not the best one.

Most content in MMO's now is endgame. Typically most content in an MMO is max level content or PvP. I will admit, FFXI and FFXIV both have a great leveling system that encourages party game-play rather than a solo grind (which a lot of current MMO's have). You have to realize though, that the majority of content is for max level, and most people want to get to that content. Restricting or slowing people from getting to that content will typically only ever cause them to cancel subscriptions. While I do find it odd that so many people have all classes at max level, it does not phase me. This game isn't trying to be pre-abyssea FFXI, if anything it's a more accessible Final Fantasy MMO which is modeled more after other games.

One last note; I think that this is all more apparent here than is other MMO's (at least the ones I've played) due to the ability to switch classes. Along with FFXI, the ability to switch classes makes you more likely to level them - If I have to make a new character altogether in order to level another class up, I'm less likely to do so. If I have nothing better to do, why wouldn't I start working on another discipline? This coupled with the fact that the current MMO trend is showing that players don't want a huge long multiple month grind to get to endgame content just means that you're going to see a lot of people with all disciplines maxed.

[Matsume]

This game is also being built with a level 99 cap in mind, so we might end up seeing 10,000,000 exp to get from 98-99 when we reach that point

Where did you get this informaion...?

Still no reply...

[Raldo]

Grinding monsters is neither a challenge, nor good content, so no, I don't want reduced exp. If leveling a job was actually fun? Sure, reduce it if you want, but sadly, after grinding for several hours, it is no longer fun.

[UmJammerSully]

Grinding monsters is neither a challenge, nor good content, so no, I don't want reduced exp. If leveling a job was actually fun? Sure, reduce it if you want, but sadly, after grinding for several hours, it is no longer fun.

This.

I agree with your overall attitude but Slower EXP does not equal ADVENTURE like you're suggesting, and I'm not sure how you even came to that conclusion.

Currently most of the game's worthwhile content is at endgame. Leves are basically just short bursts of grinding and story/GC quests are pretty subpar. We get one decent dungeon at level 25 but that's pretty much over in flash.

In my opinion, the only way lowering EXP speed would be justified is if there were way more interesting dungeons, fun quests that require a party or cool new enviroments to explore on the journey to level 50. I look at newer MMO's like The Old Republic that have meaningful content all the way up to level cap and I question whether or not I'm playing the right game.

EDIT: Just read the post above mine which makes a valid point. It's probably going to be all about engame for now, at least until 2.0 anyways.