WHM - High Risk, High Reward (another lily thread, yeah, sorry)

[MoroMurasaki]

This is wordy. I am whatever the opposite of concise is. If you want a tl;dr I would recommend the bullet point list outlining my personal wishes for a lily rework and the italicized text for a breakdown on my proposed skill and its traits. Despite it being wordy if you'd like to offer criticism I would suggest reading the whole thing as if you make assumptions or propositions counter to something else I’ve said in the rest of the text I may not feel like correcting you and just ignore it.

So I will preface by crediting Ghishlian for getting this idea ball really rolling with their lily rework thread and saying that I think their solution to lillies is perhaps the most likely to be implemented that I’ve read. If you haven't read it I suggest doing so, it's really lovely. Some of these were showerthoughts I’d had before Ghishlian’s thread but that was still the catalyst that made me put it all to paper so to speak.

It definitely got me thinking though - in a perfect world what would the lily rework look like to me? This is less about formulating an idea that I think SE would adopt (though that does still come in to play) and more about my “create your own lily rework” train of thought.

I thought about the things I enjoy about WHM first. I like the focus on oGCD heals and HoTs. I like the challenge of keeping my DoTs rolling during healing intensive times. Despite not wanting to admit it at first I enjoy that WHM is one of the go-to progression healers. In that same train of thought I enjoy it's identity as the only healer that you can begin the game as and as the defacto “new healer/player” healer. It was important to me to not disrupt any of those.

Next I looked at the things I felt were lacking. This was first and foremost a lack of a reason to take WHM into raiding apart from progression. With pDPS increases to AST bringing WHM firmly into last place in terms of rDPS+pDPS contribution WHM feels less like a bike with training wheels and more like a tricycle - it can never honestly keep up with it’s healer brethren. Also, it's job gauge is nearly useless. WHM also feels like it has the lowest skill ceiling of the three healers and while I understand I have yet to reach that ceiling personally I fear what will happen to my interest in WHM when I do.

So I had the bare bones of what I wanted.

• Retain HPS throughput without growing it
• Focus on oGCD heals and regens
• Keep WHM appealing to newer or less skilled players
• Grant unique dps buff for WHM longevity in raiding without overtaking AST so much that we start the buff cycle all over again
• Raise the skill ceiling for overall play without alienating players who are not there yet/ don't have interest in minmaxing

After thinking on these I kept circling back to Cleric Stance. Not the crappy current iteration, the pre-SB one that killed many a tank when it was double clicked or not clicked off at all.

Through the implementation of such a mechanic on WHM I believe all my goals could be achieved while offering minimal disruption to the way WHM plays right now with the added benefit of helping to further diversify the healer pool.

I’m not Dervy so obviously none of the numbers here are set in stone, this is more just to give the idea some form.

Thorns
Cast - Instant, Recast - 8.00 seconds
Buffs Stone and Aero spell trees potency by 15% while making Cure/Medica spell trees and Regen uncastable for the duration.
Effect ends upon reuse.

At an early level CNJ would learn this oGCD preferably as we’re being lectured by E-Sumi Yan about the importance of embracing our nature magic as well as our curative side. The storyline would be uninterrupted.

This means if you've applied regens prior to activating Thorns and have some oGCD heals handy you could potentially camp in this ‘stance’ for longer than its initial duration but that initially CNJs and newer WHMs would likely only use it for a welcome boost to the speed of soloing enemies in the wild or completing MSQ battles where virtually no healing is required. I could see it being safe to start fights with Thorns up so that your initial dotting of enemies is buffed but so that it's ready to be removed as needed to heal your tank.

I think this is particularly newbie-friendly since the clarity of your healing spells literally being grayed out while in Thorns means there can be no misunderstanding as to its use - it is only for times when no healing is required of you.

When you gain Medica II Thorns would gain its first trait.

Blood-letting
Any regens active on party members and self upon the activation of Thorns have their durations extended by 6 seconds.

This will help ensure the safety of the party during Thorns use.

The end of ARR and the beginning of HW will see Thorns start to shine as additional oGCD healing options and Largeese become available. This is the time when most jobs begin to diversify a bit more and find their identity which makes sense for WHM as well. As you pick up things like Benediction and Tetra you can safely spend more time in Thorns. I believe this gradual introduction to incentivise dpsing as a WHM would help open more people up to the idea while not forcing anyone to do so by reducing their healing capabilities if they choose to play a pure healer which is one of the main failings of healing/dps synergies that I've seen proposed so far.

As we move into SB we would see the next trait for Thorns, I’d go with level 62 to mirror SotL.

Thorns Mastery
Reduce cast time of Stone IV and Cure II by .5 seconds.

This wouldn't eliminate clipping entirely but it would help things feel more natural and flow better, both for Thorns and WHM play in general. Since WHM doesn't lose anywhere near the dps that pre-4.3 AST did to clipping I don't think this would be a huge pDPS increase but if it was potency adjustments could be made. I choose these two spells since they’re the default spells at 70 for ST dpsing and healing and as such they would reduce clipping the most since they're cast the most.

At level 68 Thorns would gain its final trait…

Thorns Mastery II
After entering Thorns one HP-restoring spell may still be casted. Can only trigger once every 60 seconds.

This, to me, shows WHM continuing to grow their natural and curative magicks together which is a nice way to end off SB both theoretically and practically.

My thoughts on the job gauge are simple. To start it would be a rose with the flower lit up while Thorns was inactive and the stem grayed out. With Thorns active the inverse would be true. The thorns themselves would light up each second that passed while in Thorns with all of them lit up at 8 seconds to show you could toggle it off at that point. Thorns Mastery II would show a glow from behind the flower until an HP-restoring spell is cast, indicating whether or not that buff was still active. The simplified gauge would be a blue circle when out of thorns and a swirl of green and brown while in it with an 8 second countdown bar similar to the bar for Straight Shot duration on BRD. A small white circle would indicate Thorns Mastery II’s availability, graying out once used.

I 100% understand that this idea does next to nothing for pure healers and let me be clear - while it was important to me to not alienate anyone with the pure healer mindset from playing WHM (like by limiting their healing potential for their choice to not dps) I still think they're objectively playing the job incorrectly. I don't care to debate this, it's gone on ad nauseum and it will continue for this game’s lifespan. If you think this way with all due respect your opinion is noted and summarily dismissed because it has no place in talks of job balance or crafting.

So yeah - this is where my brain has gone with things. I hope it was a reasonably interesting read. I think it's like 70% nostalgia for the old Cleric Stance which I have been missing dearly lately. I understand that my durations/potencies could very well be over or under powered, this isn't so much about those as it is about the idea. I still think Ghishlian's lily rework is probably the best one I've read but I hope they don't mind me making my own - I encourage anyone with similar feelings on the current lily system to do the same. If there are enough suggestions to change it maybe one day SE will realize it's crap in it's current iteration.

Thanks for your time guys! Happy healing o/

[Sylvain]

Grant unique dps buff for WHM longevity in raiding without overtaking AST so much that we start the buff cycle all over again

Happy to read that, SCH already does more than AST on many fight (rdps)

Thorns
Cast - Instant, Recast - 8.00 seconds
Buffs Stone and Aero spell trees potency by 15% while making Cure/Medica spell trees and Regen uncastable for the duration.
Effect ends upon reuse.

So you're basically bringing back Cleric Stance...
Ohoh assuming they'd put that, I honestly couldn't wait to see tons of wipe because people would use that at the wrong time (or someone get hit at the wrong times)

I think this is particularly newbie-friendly since the clarity of your healing spells literally being grayed out while in Thorns means there can be no misunderstanding as to its use - it is only for times when no healing is required of you.

This well thought tho! It would have saved quite a few tanks back then.

Thorns Mastery II
After entering Thorns one HP-restoring spell may still be casted. Can only trigger once every 60 seconds.

Ah perhaps you can still save them

I think it's like 95% nostalgia for the old Cleric Stance which I have been missing dearly lately.

Fixed


This is definitely not so bad. But why "thorn" exactly?

I personally wouldn't really like something like this to be included, while it wouldn't be intrusive to "pure healer" / "new healer", you still have 3 traits allowed to boost something that increase your dps skills by 15%. (Fine one can upgrade your hots duration)
That's a hefty budget for such a small effect. While 15% dps on a dps can be a lot (especially on BLM/SMN/SAM/MNK), 15% on a healer is much less.

I just checked fflog for sigma savage average all boss:
at 75th percentile (so... not too high not too low), WHM deal 2150 dps on average. So 15% of that is 320dps
at 95% percentil have 2660 dps, a gain of 397dps... so almost 100 more dps.
I may be alone here but... 320dps? An entire new mechanic and 3 traits allowed for 320dps? 400dps if you're extremely good.

And I mean, what is 400dps in a group of 95th percentile player? Would it even be 1% of rdps increase?

I get the idea but... beside boosting one's e-peen, this wouldn't do much. I really can't see a single scenario where that amount of dps can make a difference justifying 3 traits. (not that lilies are especially better)
If anything they should just transform the garbage that cleric stance is into that. At least it wouldn't tap into WHM budget

[Ceasaria]

"WHM - High Risk, High Reward'"

The problem is it's not like this WHM is seen by SE and it will never go in this direction.
This is more the philosophy of AST.