THM vs Tank FIGHT!!

[Rydin]

lollllllllllllll




^


anyway, the person who suggested MRD tanking early in the thread is pretty spot on. GLD relies too much on static hate from ability use. damage is a large factor in enmity in this game, since 1 dmg = 1 enmity, and MRD just hits a lot harder on ifrit. considering flat blade in a combo does like 2x enmity of damage dealt, and flat blade is only hitting ifrit for like 20 dmg... yeah. not amazing.

gld is better for moogle, though, since it can mitigate more damage and actually do reasonable damage to the moogles at the same time.

anyway, if anyone hasn't seen this yet they should probably check it out. understanding enmity is definitely a group effort.

but you can't just blame it all on one class. everyone has to be better at managing it. tanks need to generate more so dps can go harder, dps need to go as hard as possible without crossing hate threshold, blah blah.

Not true... the higher the defense on a MOB... the better Glad is as a tank.....
Because Damage goes up or down depending on the MOB but the hate generated from abilities is consistent.
Honestly... the difference between damage from a Glad and damage from a MRD on Ifrit has been reduced considerably
MRD use to outdamage glad by light years... now.. not so much

[fusional]

Not true... the higher the defense on a MOB... the better Glad is as a tank.....
Because Damage goes up or down depending on the MOB but the hate generated from abilities is consistent.
Honestly... the difference between damage from a Glad and damage from a MRD on Ifrit has been reduced considerably
MRD use to outdamage glad by light years... now.. not so much

i feel like we're not even playing the same game.

MRD WSs are hitting for 100ish or more each. GLDs are doing like 15-20. the aggro generated from abilities is static. enmity is not reduced from taking damage. GLD block is useless after a point and they don't really have anything more than MRDs to mitigate magic damage.

so they have generally the same *abilities* for generating enmity, but MRD is outdamaging GLD by a significant multiplier.

considering GLD block abilities are pretty useless for this fight, there's no real point in bringing them over a mrd. you're generating a lot less top-end enmity so you can take maybe 4k less damage over the course of a 10+ min fight... and 10+mins is awful. if you're doing it in 5mins, it's quite a bit less than 4k damage. and either way your cnj (or cnjs? lol) should easily be able to handle it.

i've grouped with maybe one amazing GLD that was able to do 13+ dps on ifrit, but generally most GLDs are only going to be doing 7-9ish. MRD can very easily push 15+ dps, and should be capable of 20 if they're in an all-THM group (thereby not really needing to worry about MPKing lancers by turning ifrit around)

yes GLD works, and it works fine- but that's not the point. the point is you'll have less enmity issues (on ifrit) with a good MRD tank.

[Rydin]

i feel like we're not even playing the same game.

MRD WSs are hitting for 100ish or more each. GLDs are doing like 15-20. the aggro generated from abilities is static. enmity is not reduced from taking damage. GLD block is useless after a point and they don't really have anything more than MRDs to mitigate magic damage.

Aegis Boon + War Drum is a big deal... Not only does it mitigate one full attack... but it generates tons of enmity....
Also... Have you been on Glad? 15-20 on a weaponskill?
Fast Blade>Savage Blade>Goring Blade and you'll see Goring blade do over 100 damage...
Fast Blade>Flat Blade while Goring blade is on cooldown and you'll do 70+ damage with Flat blade....
Also Fast Blade>Flat Blade has a much lower cool down than any of the MRD combos, so you can do it more often... and I mean pretty much constantly

so they have generally the same *abilities* for generating enmity, but MRD is outdamaging GLD by a significant multiplier.

considering GLD block abilities are pretty useless for this fight, there's no real point in bringing them over a mrd. you're generating a lot less top-end enmity so you can take maybe 4k less damage over the course of a 10+ min fight... and 10+mins is awful. if you're doing it in 5mins, it's quite a bit less than 4k damage. and either way your cnj (or cnjs? lol) should easily be able to handle it.

i've grouped with maybe one amazing GLD that was able to do 13+ dps on ifrit, but generally most GLDs are only going to be doing 7-9ish. MRD can very easily push 15+ dps, and should be capable of 20 if they're in an all-THM group (thereby not really needing to worry about MPKing lancers by turning ifrit around)

yes GLD works, and it works fine- but that's not the point. the point is you'll have less enmity issues (on ifrit) with a good MRD tank.

Ask yourself this... If MRD weaponskills are doing 5x's the damage of Glad weaponskills... why, in your example, is the MRD only doing 15% more in your example?
That math doesn't add up...
I do like MRD... It makes for a faster fight with more DPS.. but GLAD holds hate better

Yes MRD is doing a more damage..
But here is MATH
War drum generates 363 enmity... (540 under sentinel)
And has a 1 minute cooldown
So you have to do "at least" 363 MORE DAMAGE than a glad PER MINUTE to even be in the ballpark, in terms of enmity
I don't know that you can refute math...

Im not being a douche... I play both classes... and when I wanna be a hard hitting tank I go MRD.. but numbers dont lie

I don't even have to mention rampart

[ShadowCadja]

Aegis Boon + War Drum is a big deal... Not only does it mitigate one full attack... but it generates tons of enmity....
Also... Have you been on Glad? 15-20 on a weaponskill?
Fast Blade>Savage Blade>Goring Blade and you'll see Goring blade do over 100 damage...
Fast Blade>Flat Blade while Goring blade is on cooldown and you'll do 70+ damage with Flat blade....
Also Fast Blade>Flat Blade has a much lower cool down than any of the MRD combos, so you can do it more often... and I mean pretty much constantly










Ask yourself this... If MRD weaponskills are doing 5x's the damage of Glad weaponskills... why, in your example, is the MRD only doing 15% more in your example?
That math doesn't add up...
I do like MRD... It makes for a faster fight with more DPS.. but GLAD holds hate better

Yes MRD is doing a more damage..
But here is MATH
War drum generates 363 enmity... (540 under sentinel)
And has a 1 minute cooldown
So you have to do "at least" 363 MORE DAMAGE than a glad PER MINUTE to even be in the ballpark, in terms of enmity
I don't know that you can refute math...

Im not being a douche... I play both classes... and when I wanna be a hard hitting tank I go MRD.. but numbers dont lie

I don't even have to mention rampart

Keen Flurry + War Drum = Yummy

[Rydin]

Keen Flurry + War Drum = Yummy

I don't on Ifrit because both Aegis Boon and War drum have a 1 minute cool down and its so much easier to use them together....

[Renshi]

Aegis Boon + War Drum is a big deal... Not only does it mitigate one full attack... but it generates tons of enmity....
Also... Have you been on Glad? 15-20 on a weaponskill?
Fast Blade>Savage Blade>Goring Blade and you'll see Goring blade do over 100 damage...
Fast Blade>Flat Blade while Goring blade is on cooldown and you'll do 70+ damage with Flat blade....
Also Fast Blade>Flat Blade has a much lower cool down than any of the MRD combos, so you can do it more often... and I mean pretty much constantly










Ask yourself this... If MRD weaponskills are doing 5x's the damage of Glad weaponskills... why, in your example, is the MRD only doing 15% more in your example?
That math doesn't add up...
I do like MRD... It makes for a faster fight with more DPS.. but GLAD holds hate better

Yes MRD is doing a more damage..
But here is MATH
War drum generates 363 enmity... (540 under sentinel)
And has a 1 minute cooldown
So you have to do "at least" 363 MORE DAMAGE than a glad PER MINUTE to even be in the ballpark, in terms of enmity
I don't know that you can refute math...

Im not being a douche... I play both classes... and when I wanna be a hard hitting tank I go MRD.. but numbers dont lie

I don't even have to mention rampart

Cool stats! Where did ya take from? Could be useful in some Moogle fights

[Rydin]

Cool stats! Where did ya take from? Could be useful in some Moogle fights

this thread
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Translation%29
which links to translation of a Japanese player that did all the tests.. and also confirmed by Kaeoko's test and confirmed by some testing I've done myself
They have compiled a decent enmity chart

[YuriSan]

Not true... the higher the defense on a MOB... the better Glad is as a tank.....
Because Damage goes up or down depending on the MOB but the hate generated from abilities is consistent.
Honestly... the difference between damage from a Glad and damage from a MRD on Ifrit has been reduced considerably
MRD use to outdamage glad by light years... now.. not so much

Indeed. Rage of halone combo and Gorging blade combo are pretty good damage!
MRD isn't all that much overpowered, also Shield is great or well it used to be way better but meh. still offers another slot to put materia on +34 DEF on mine, that's not bad at all.
Anyway i am happy i can tank on my GLA again.
That short period I "HAD" to tank on MRD made me a really sad panda.
I will probably try tanking on MRD again now that i made me a +1 Bardiche, till i get my Ifrit axe anyway.