BLM Utility ideas!

[Zerathor]

While it's something I would agree, I want to point out that they kinda shot down that possibility by saying that if they had to give BLM that utility they would've to decrease the dmg.

We should work hard to make them reconsider it (without dmg nerfs perhaps)

I mean, if smn gets to have a raise for almost zero dps cost on single target, and actually zero dps loss for anything involving adds or a second target, blm shouldn't lose any dps for mild utility.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I mean, if smn gets to have a raise for almost zero dps cost on single target, and actually zero dps loss for anything involving adds or a second target, blm shouldn't lose any dps for mild utility.

Unless a Magic Vuln has uptime like Garuda-Egi's Contagion, it can't be considered mild utility anymore. If you can refresh it like piercing and slashing it would make BLM a bit too strong (and before you go lash out for potential bias, BLM is my most played DPS and I dislike SMN to no end) since you potentially affect PLD with the Holy Spirit window and healer dps with it. Hell even Ninjutsus are often magical.

If its a refreshable GCD, its too good and 9/10 times part of your rotation, requiring to lower personal DPS to balance our rDPS contribution.
If it is an oGCD with low uptime similar to contagion, it can work out but still comes with the issue that BLM is g a r b a g e at weaving without triplecast.
If it is ogcd high uptime, see both of the above.

Keeping in mind that BLM is the best target for using manashift (for one having the most MP out of all casters and basically refreshing MP freely under UI) and still has the caster role action suite available, it is difficult to give BLM any utility that neither breaks it, makes it op or is just braindead like the often-suggested idea of having any form of a resurrection on it. If you ask me, I'd even remove resurrection from the Arcanist kit and make it Scholar only.

[Zerathor]

snip

If mana shift had zero cd and you were able to dump an entire mp bar if you really needed to, blm would be the best user of manashift. It's not like that though, it's smn. They don't have a limited resource pool anymore with lucid dreaming, so they will never run out of mp from shifting, and they're able to WEAVE it at ANY POINT in their rotation, for at the very most a cost of 20 potency worst case scenario. 40% of the time it would be zero cost.

Then go blm perspective: ONLY can shift in UI, and if it was clipped, the animation lock essentially costed you 125 potency. If you shift in AF, it costed you 125+260 potency for the f4 you threw away. The only way for a blm to shift without loss is to get a t3p available in UI.

Hell, manashift is actually part of smn opener for extending foe from the bard.

[Sunspawn]

Unless a Magic Vuln has uptime like Garuda-Egi's Contagion, it can't be considered mild utility anymore. If you can refresh it like piercing and slashing it would make BLM a bit too strong (and before you go lash out for potential bias, BLM is my most played DPS and I dislike SMN to no end) since you potentially affect PLD with the Holy Spirit window and healer dps with it. Hell even Ninjutsus are often magical.

You mean too strong like TA is too strong?

[Kabooa]

You mean too strong like TA is too strong?

Too strong as in every single caster is balanced assuming no permanent magic vuln.

You want stupid numbers? Put 4 summoners in the same party and see what a full 15% magic damage uptime looks like.

[EllieShadeflare]

Too strong as in every single caster is balanced assuming no permanent magic vuln.

You want stupid numbers? Put 4 summoners in the same party and see what a full 15% magic damage uptime looks like.

I know I've essentially double posted since this post is so quick after my last one, but I've previously given a look at what Black Mage would need to be nerfed to in order to even accommodate a 5% vuln up.

The answer would require BLM to lose a massive chunk of their potency, with Fire/Blizzard being reduced to base 150 potency (or 297 practical potency for Fire), Fire III/Blizzard III reduced to 220 (436 practical potency), and Fire IV/Blizzard IV being reduced to 240 (475) as a maximum. The potencies for Fire I/Blizzard I and Fire III/Blizzard III didn't simply come from nowhere, these were the numbers from ARR. And this would still be a 15% damage reduction on our whole rotation to accommodate the fact that we have two healers with us at all times. And as you mentioned, Kabooa, this vuln up gets more ridiculous when you add either additional Black Mages or a few Summoners to have an even higher magic damage up time.

Never once have I been asked to go from blm to smn for devotion, or contagion, or radiant shield. Guess why they wanted a smn? I'll give you a hint: the same thing they said a rdm would work for too.

You're downplaying how strong a dps raise is in ultimate or even savage by a lot.

You're overplaying a DPS raise's potency for anything but progression. I've not once denied its potency for progression, only for afterward. Obviously, those three abilities aren't much on their own, but Summoner also brings much higher damage than Red Mage does, and the additional universal 2% from Devotion, the 10% for the summoner themselves and the healers from Contagion, and the "revenge" shield + physical vulnerability of Radiant Shield doesn't hurt either.

[Zerathor]

snip

Even in ultimate groups that clear, the raise greatly improves success rates for reclear. And for savage, if you're done with prog, why does any of this matter? You could probably clear these savage floors with 7 warriors and a healer if you really wanted to. They're a joke.

[Remedi]

I mean, if smn gets to have a raise for almost zero dps cost on single target, and actually zero dps loss for anything involving adds or a second target, blm shouldn't lose any dps for mild utility.

Raise on SMN has been broken for a while and frankly raise should not exist on casters especially since there's the double standards of RDM beign gutted for it while SMN aren't

@Reinhardt_Azureheim while blm beign the best mana shift user candidate is true from a quick glance the reality is that you can't use it unless your are in ice phase and it also is a dps loss because of clipping, meanwhile SMN has none of this issue.
And then you remember that refresh has no weaknesses, gives more MP and is aoe

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

@Reinhardt_Azureheim while blm beign the best mana shift user candidate is true from a quick glance the reality is that you can't use it unless your are in ice phase and it also is a dps loss because of clipping, meanwhile SMN has none of this issue. And then you remember that refresh has no weaknesses, gives more MP and is aoe

Then go blm perspective: ONLY can shift in UI, and if it was clipped, the animation lock essentially costed you 125 potency. If you shift in AF, it costed you 125+260 potency for the f4 you threw away. The only way for a blm to shift without loss is to get a t3p available in UI. Hell, manashift is actually part of smn opener for extending foe from the bard.

Does "only manashift while under UI" and generally using anything ogcd after instantcast(proc)s no longer go without saying? I mean come on, I thought it was common knowledge by now that it wouldn't need to be cherrypicked on a post.

[Zerathor]

Keeping in mind that BLM is the best target for using manashift (for one having the most MP out of all casters and basically refreshing MP freely under UI)

Does "only manashift while under UI" and generally using anything ogcd after instantcast(proc)s no longer go without saying? I mean come on, I thought it was common knowledge by now that it wouldn't need to be cherrypicked on a post.

so the best suited job for mana shift is the one who can only do it at a minimal loss (still astronomically larger than smn) during a 2 gcd window every 30 seconds, or zero loss if by a chance you get a proc to occur in that 2 gcd window of that said 30 seconds? It does go without saying you only shift under UI, and try to use ogcd's during instant casts. Its those reasons why blm is horribly suited for mana shift in comparison to a job that essentially has zero mana problems and can shift for no dps loss at any point in their rotation.