Tank Stance

[Ameela]

The tanks were never meant to leave tank stance, I think. That is unless the were the second tank in an 8 man.

If tanks were never meant to leave tank stance why would they have specific abilities they can only use while not in tank stance?

[RiyahArp]

If tanks were never meant to leave tank stance why would they have specific abilities they can only use while not in tank stance?

They don't, really. They modify their abilities mostly; DRK has slightly better MP refresh, war loses heals and shields and gets a very slight tp bonus. But the reason they do is that someone has to be the off tank usually in 8 man content, and they needed a way to make all classes are viable. I mean lol war didn't even HAVE a dps stance till HW launch. PLD had nothing unique to sword until stormblood.

It's more a case of players evolving gameplay than intent i think.

[Ameela]

They don't, really. They modify their abilities mostly; DRK has slightly better MP refresh, war loses heals and shields and gets a very slight tp bonus. But the reason they do is that someone has to be the off tank usually in 8 man content, and they needed a way to make all classes are viable. I mean lol war didn't even HAVE a dps stance till HW launch. PLD had nothing unique to sword until stormblood.

How does a skill like Decimate help your job as the off tank at all? Also back in HW DRK was simply way better outside of Grit because it could use both Blood Price AND Blood Weapon, it was clearly designed with stance dancing in mind otherwise they wouldn't have locked one of those abilities to DPS stance only, and before you say it's to make up for the fact that you couldn't use Blood Price if you were the off tank, why would they not lock it out while you're outside of Grit? Wouldn't that discourage people from tanking outside of Grit thus accomplishing what they "intended" according to you?

Also I'm pretty sure if 2.0 Warrior had been competently designed at all it would have originally had a DPS stance, people seem to forget that level 50 Warrior was an absolute mess at launch and they literally had to rework the entire class to be more like Paladin to make it playable.
Also Paladin didn't even have Shield Oath until level 40, from 30-40 you were forced to use Sword Oath, how does that reflect their desire for tanks to use tank stance as much as possible?
In fact if tanks are always meant to use tank stance in group content, why would it not be unlocked right away at level 15 alongside other crucial skills like Shield Lob/Tomahawk and Flash/Overpower?

[shao32]

snip

you are a bit outdated, shield oath is on level 30 now.

on the SE intentions they show more that one time they desing every fight with MT on tank stance all the time apart of nerfing tank dps on heavensward a few times bcs it was becoming a problem as they catch bards and mch and remember they put heavy penalitations on tank swaping on stormblood locking blood price on grit but improving the usability of many skills on the stance and halving WAR and PLD gauges on swaps with cleary intentions slow down the agresive tanking but the aproach have a negative effect on the playerbase mostly on WARs used for being OP 2 years.

[RiyahArp]

How does a skill like Decimate help your job as the off tank at all?

I'm not sure its there to help, as opposed to prevent you from restoring health via steel cyclone. DRK still has it, but dark is very limited by MP generation since its insanely expensive to da+ drain constantly. PLD my only guess is they figured its enmity generation and mitigation was fine until 40, but most people do think it was a wtf decision anyways.

I mean too, why is enmity generation crippled in dps stance? what's the point of defensive boosts if everything is meant to be tanked without them?It's not even really stance dancing, you flip it on at the start and never leave dps stance if possible after. I think it's just their intent didn't match the way people played after a bit, because players are really good at finding ways to game systems, aka eureka fate trains.

[Alaray]

The tanks were never meant to leave tank stance, I think. That is unless the were the second tank in an 8 man.

That's not really accurate.

I tank large trash pulls in Hells Lid, Swallow's and Fractal without tank stance on aside from an initial enmity AoE. Never had an issue with it. If one mob gets out, DA Plunge, or unmend is normally plenty to get it back quickly.

I also tank the bosses without a tank stance on aside from my initial opener. Extremely rare I run into an issue with that.

If the party is using their buttons correctly and the healer isn't overhealing by a ridiculous amount, it'll be fine. If not, then I'll do 1 - 2 power slash combos with DA. If they still manage to rip it off me, and I'm reasonably close if not ahead in damage output, then... they are summarily sacrificed.

It does change some if the tank is outgeared by a lot, but then the tank just adjusts to it.

Also, out of tank stance:

- WAR receives their highest burst window (IR > Fell Cleave) as one big thing.
- DRK receives usage of Blood Weapon (Haste + Extra MP Regen) and can use it in conjunction with Delirium.
- PLD I don't know, they auto attack more and don't have to lose multiple GCDs swapping stances. I'm sure there's something else I'm just forgetting about them in particular.
- Plus, now they all do more damage output by 20 percent. (Okay, PLD's Shield Oath flat reduces damage by 15% because they had to use a different number)

[RiyahArp]

I tank large trash pulls in Hells Lid, Swallow's and Fractal without tank stance on aside from an initial enmity AoE.

Put tank stance on when you pull. A good healer or ranged dpses on the mobs while you pull them; you can knock down a lot of mobs health through dots during the trip there, and we often rely on riding the eminity line for best damage. There's zero benefit to having dps stance during the actual pull. And yes, you might be able to abuse abyssal drain to compensate, but tanks like you the healer carries; you get an inexperienced or hesitant one, youll put tank stance on anyways.

[Alaray]

Put tank stance on when you pull. A good healer or ranged dpses on the mobs while you pull them; you can knock down a lot of mobs health through dots during the trip there, and we often rely on riding the eminity line for best damage. And yes, you might be able to abuse enmity drain to compensate, but tanks like you the healer carries; you get an inexperienced or hesitant one, youll put tank stance on anyways.

I play DPS too, and I do this.

Want to know what I do if I plan to lay into Mobs like that?

I push "Diversion"

If I"m tanking what to know what I do? Abyssal Drain while running, Flash while running, take a sec to do an extra Overpower if necessary, which barely stops me from moving.

What to know what happens? I don't lose anything.

[RiyahArp]

I play DPS too, and I do this.

Want to know what I do if I plan to lay into Mobs like that?

I push "Diversion"

..your healer doesn't have diversion, they have a tool that refreshes their MP, which they use to offset the expensive cost of aoe dps. if you force me to use it on pull, thats a waste and reduces my dps overall. Using tactician or diversion on pull is a waste cause you need it for bursts, and tactician is clumsy as hell...its prime purpose again is to offset the tp cost of aoe dps. I mean just click tank on while you run, you aren't dpsing the mobs any while you do it. Click it off while at the end of the pull, thats ok, but ugh, i might want to benison or tetra you during a long pull, and no tank stance can mean it comes back to me.

[AppleJinx]

Pressing diversion is too hard! Must blame tank for not tanking right.