Tank Stance

[addz3]

The problem with both the points above. 1. He never had agro to start with. 2. Defensive bonus is irrelevant, multiple deaths caused by enmity chopping between players is bad enmity control and like it or not the tank has the tools or more than any other job to control this. The fact that this tank and tanks in general don't take charge of enmity is the definition of bad tanking. It also brings the group's dps down as a whole as well.

[BillyKaplan]

Also with Warrior, he wouldn't have gotten any defensive bonus from the use of Defiance.

No, but the heal buff helps in a pinch, and it gives you access to Inner Beast which does have a defensive bonus. Plus more self-heal tools.

This story is way too partial to judge either way. I think the party should've managed their own agro. Assuming they didn't, the tank was in the wrong for not taking matters into their own hands. Like people say here, it's a group effort, and if the tank refused to adapt to the party they ran with, some of the blame falls on them as well. They rolled a tank, the tank's primary job is to hold hate.
Between this and taking stance dancing away from them... that's a no.

[Dragon_punch]

Soo because you had a bad experience with a tank you want them to nerf dps stance for all tanks? There is nothing wrong with stance dancing as long as the tank is holding enmity and not causing the healer to struggle keeping them alive. Tanks are already the lowest played classes in FFXIV lets not lower that number more by giving them less options.

[addz3]

It's not an isolated incident. And why not? Why should tanks have stances when dps or healers don't, where is the equality in that?

Imo this just indicates the sad state of affairs where all people care about is dps. It's always someone else's fault lol. Healers healing too much.... dps are dpsing to much. Never mind the tank not using an ability created for the job? Wow. All my tanks are 70 and rarely do people die or enmity causes chaos. I'd be fine with some stance changes. People tank because they want fast queues. Would people stop play tanks because a stance gets taken away or nerfed in dungeon content?

[Raldo]

It's not an isolated incident. And why not? Why should tanks have stances when dps or healers don't, where is the equality in that?

I don't doubt that you've encountered an idiot here and there, but I find it hard to believe that this is a common occurrence.

I think healers lost their DPS stance because it was causing balance issues.

[Canadane]

It's not an isolated incident. And why not? Why should tanks have stances when dps or healers don't, where is the equality in that?

Both of ASTs stances reduce enmity and SCH is split with faerie.
Yeah it might be best for a tank to gain initial enmity but I think you're taking this too far. Too often do I see tanks sit in tank stance 100% of the time, and that's much worse imo

[Jijifli]

Never mind the tank not using an ability created for the job? Wow.

Funny how you'll blame the tank for not using a tool in his job, but when the healers and dps don't use theirs, it's completely okay.

If you all did use your enmity controlling and still all had more threat then him, then yes it's his fault. If the dps doesn't diversion though, then they're liable to tank. ALL dps have access to some form of enmity control (Even BRD and MCH, even though they're meant for resource help.)

People tank because they want fast queues. Would people stop play tanks because a stance gets taken away or nerfed in dungeon content?

It's hard enough to convince me to even tank in the first place already, and the ability to max out my dps is what makes them fun and enjoyable when I actually do. Take that away, I'll delete my DRK alt on the spot, because you'd take the only reason I'd play a tank.

[BillyKaplan]

Funny how you'll blame the tank for not using a tool in his job, but when the healers and dps don't use theirs, it's completely okay.

For most dps and healers, those tools are not "mandatory", while all of a tank's enmity tools are baked into their kit. Now, I cross both Diversion and Lucid like a good little dps because I run agro happy jobs. But you know what I don't need when I take my RDM into a PotD solo run? Diversion. So here I am in a boss fight in a dungeon with a party and I have Drain instead. Is it my fault for forgetting? Absolutely, for all the good it does the party in the middle of the fight I realized it on. Should the tank still refuse to use their enmity tools in that situation?
Admittedly this is more a complaint about role actions than anything else.

[addz3]

Funny how you'll blame the tank for not using a tool in his job, but when the healers and dps don't use theirs, it's completely okay.

If you all did use your enmity controlling and still all had more threat then him, then yes it's his fault. If the dps doesn't diversion though, then they're liable to tank. ALL dps have access to some form of enmity control (Even BRD and MCH, even though they're meant for resource help.)



It's hard enough to convince me to even tank in the first place already, and the ability to max out my dps is what makes them fun and enjoyable when I actually do. Take that away, I'll delete my DRK alt on the spot, because you'd take the only reason I'd play a tank.

Not at one point have I said enmity isn't a group thing or that dps and healer weren't using their enmity abilities. They were as was I.


So you play tank to max dps? Excellent. Imo it sounds like you prefer dps and short queues, that's why you tank. And again imo that attitude is what's wrong with tanks who care more about dps than their primarru role. I have no problem with tanks who can do both, just those that sacrifice enmity control to max dps. It's not helpful for the actual dps to lose dps so the tank can knock out a bit. It's counter productive....

[Jijifli]

Not at one point have I said enmity isn't a group thing or that dps and healer weren't using their enmity abilities. They were as was I.

Your statement came off as that, but as I did say in the quote you took, if you were using diversion and still getting threat that quickly, then yes it's his fault.

So you play tank to max dps? Excellent. Imo it sounds like you prefer dps and short queues, that's why you tank. And again imo that attitude is what's wrong with tanks who care more about dps than their primarru role. I have no problem with tanks who can do both, just those that sacrifice enmity control to max dps. It's not helpful for the actual dps to lose dps so the tank can knock out a bit. It's counter productive....

I play tank on an alt, an alt played so little for content anyways that he still doesn't have a 360 weapon, and only one piece of mendacity gear. I already dislike playing tank most of the time, the ONLY thing it offering to me is the ability to maximize. I really, really don't care about queue time, because I can do money making crafting and gathering while waiting on it.

Also, as a bit of perspective, I've had plenty of runs on all 3 tanks where I am only in tank stance for the pull, do 1 enmity combo, and drop it for the rest of the fight, not losing threat. Hell, if things die so slowly, I test and don't do an enmity combo or tank stance at all. Funny enough, half the time I still somehow hold threat, even undergeared...