Fatigue 2.0

[Haibel]

The thread title is click bait. this thread is to discuss the merits of up
coming changes and the history behind them, reasons for them.

The fatigue system was an interesting monster if I say so. was it implemented
wrong. yep, it sure was. It is believed by me ( I won't speak for the rest of the
community, You can do that in response.) that the point of the fatigue system
was to guide the players to use other classes and get people to take breaks from
the guy along with another system that was poorly in place (Market Wards).

where I think the original system failed is that it was implemented way to early.
had the system had been held off until exp was balanced as it is now the
original system would have worked provided it floored at what normal exp is at.
with the fact that the exp system was not finished or balanced it failed hard.

The new system seems on face valve as a workable model and I assume is a one
and done use type system. As in you can only use the exp bonus on the class logged
out on. The old system was suppose to regen one class as you leveled another
class. In reality it was multiple other classes. Which still worked in theory for
the old class system make up. One and done works for the current system
as there is not as much need to level multiple classes as there once was.

This still needs to work in tandem with another system to free up resources
on the servers. one of the underlying reasons for the Market ward / retainer
system is to free up resources from AFK bazaars. the theory being that
AFK'ers are still sending packet traffic. retainers should take less resources
because they are only sending packet traffic to PC's inside the market wards.

We are now at the point in the dev of the game where we can get what we
all want. The whole AH v MW debate has die mostly because it's a moot point
now. Here comes my opinion and what I would like to see.

Get rid of the multiple instances of the markets in each city down to just one
market, linked to all cities. make the stalls in each ward an NPC vendor for a
curtain category of goods and the place to interface the retainer markets.
fix the search to be by item catagory and not ward type. Let us access our retainers just as we do now and also in the new housings options. just don't have our retainers living as zombies in the wards. there is no reason to have to our retainers seen by everybody.

Other option is scrap my NPC idea and have empty stalls and have our Retainers only visible to the person attempting to by something from the retainer in the market search and allow them to see all other items on the retainer. Also make seek a
useable option. Possibly get rid of Bazaars on player characters to get them to log out or add an auto D/C after 2 hours inactive.

Be nice and give your opinions without trolling.

TL;DR Fatigue can be good and could have been fixed before. Retainers need
work for 2.0 and now the time to ask for what we would like.

[RemVye]

This thread brought me to a false sense of security then stole my lunch money.

It was very long, so based on the TLDR....


SE has a plan for 2.0, they aren't going to be coming to the ENGLISH (lawl) Lodestone Forums to get ideas on what to put into 2.0. I'm sure they have enough on their plates as it is and if they want to make there deadlines (most likely will be a few weeks late anyway) then they can't just accept new tasks.

There has already been a ton of things they've responded with "we'll see if we can get this into 2.0"... I love these topics, they bring joy.

[Haibel]

So your response is don't hold your breath from SE to do anything because we are not
Japanese.

I'm going to say Troll post. I'm not looking for a response from SE. I'm looking for a discusstion
by the community on the merits/demerits of fatigue system or what would be good to do about
the retainer system. If you have any I would like to read them.

[RemVye]

So your response is don't hold your breath from SE to do anything because we are not
Japanese.

I'm going to say Troll post. I'm not looking for a response from SE. I'm looking for a discusstion
by the community on the merits/demerits of fatigue system or what would be good to do about
the retainer system. If you have any I would like to read them.

You can discuss all day on whatever you'd like. The fact is, SE has a plan and they will use that plan whether you think it has merit or not. At the end of the day these discussions are no more than places for people to "listen" to themselves talk.

For sake of on-topicalness however:

Rested XP is coming
Drop the whole MW/Retainer system put in AH and Mog House+Safe. End.

[Raldo]

Game theory 101: Do not punish your players for playing your game.

While on paper there may not be a large difference between docking exp after long periods of play vs. giving bonus exp while offline, in actuality, giving a bonus instead of a punishment makes a world of difference.

[Seig345]

Rem's one of my favorites X) but honestly, "Revamp retainer system and markets" could mean anything (it could even be a boat! ... sorry...)

I don't know if I wanna see the fatigue system back, if it's supposed to be a way to get people to take a break or try the other jobs, that's fine at the start, maybe have it in place for classes under level 20-30, but some players are only going to wanna play certain classes/jobs and forcing them to move away from those if they play too long just seems as frustrating as using a controller-based UI with a keyboard and mouse, to me.

As for the market wards stuff... That definitely needs changing. In terms of the NPC stalls, do you mean they would sell base-line equipment/goods for certain level ranges or something? Would probably wanna be careful with that, since it would be likely to influence the player market a great deal.

Otherwise, I agree with having only the retainer you're looking for be visible. I'd also be fine with having every retainer be visible (instead of just small groups at a time like now, since they said they would work on increasing that limit), but that's only because my PC is somewhat higher-end. I would also agree with restricting how long people can AFK-Bazaar, seeing as that's why they gave us retainers in the first place. From a consumer perspective, I'm not going to go hunting through people's bazaars if I can just waltz up to the market wards and most likely find it there.

That's just me and my opinion though. (Also, like Rem said, they already have a plan with set deadlines, so that leaves very little room to squish new ideas in in time for 2.0)

[Haibel]

Game theory 101: Do not punish your players for playing your game.

While on paper there may not be a large difference between docking exp after long periods of play vs. giving bonus exp while offline, in actuality, giving a bonus instead of a punishment makes a world of difference.

I understand that in whole, and I wasn't a fan of the old fatigue system. I understand the need for it.
it more of a way for SE to insulate themselves from players with no self control and play way too much.
the last thing any game maker wants is bad press from law suits from "addicted players".

I agree a bonus is better and the old system wasn't bad IF it had a floor at normal Exp and they had
waited to know where that floor was before they put it in. This new system I have no problem with.

[Haibel]

I don't know if I wanna see the fatigue system back, if it's supposed to be a way to get people to take a break or try the other jobs, that's fine at the start, maybe have it in place for classes under level 20-30, but some players are only going to wanna play certain classes/jobs and forcing them to move away from those if they play too long just seems as frustrating as using a controller-based UI with a keyboard and mouse, to me.

As far as I can tell the new system is a one and done bonus so it's not going to Force people a way from the
game so that's a plus. it also is not going to make us change classes. As for limiting it to curtain levels. it won't matter
if you have it the whole way because it's doesn't have an effect on normal play other then you get a bonus on a class
for a short period of time. Also once you hit cap who cares how much exp you get.

my only argument which doesn't matter is that if the old system had a floor it would have been better
because all classes got a bonus. This one with work just fine if able to use on DoH DoL.

[Haibel]

As for the market wards stuff... That definitely needs changing. In terms of the NPC stalls, do you mean they would sell base-line equipment/goods for certain level ranges or something? Would probably wanna be careful with that, since it would be likely to influence the player market a great deal.

Otherwise, I agree with having only the retainer you're looking for be visible. I'd also be fine with having every retainer be visible (instead of just small groups at a time like now, since they said they would work on increasing that limit), but that's only because my PC is somewhat higher-end. I would also agree with restricting how long people can AFK-Bazaar, seeing as that's why they gave us retainers in the first place. From a consumer perspective, I'm not going to go hunting through people's bazaars if I can just waltz up to the market wards and most likely find it there.

It was more of a move the NPC's that are already vendors in the wards to the counters and you access the search
feature through them, But also can see there wares. which for the most part is sub 20's starting gear that is mostly
over priced. No real danger of influence on the market there.

the other option was go up to a stall and access the search and find what you want. when you select your item it brings
the retainer up you see there stuff and you buy the stuff you wanted.