Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[KaldeaSahaline]

The reason why we need grinding back is because there is a intense lack of long term goals, also I'd rather ppl stop using fun as a way to judge content since it's a very subjective choice, some find fun Eureka others don't, just as some like testing themselves in ultimate while others prefer 24 man raids.
Since MMOs targets a wide audience it's impossible to use fun as a metric at all.
I'd rather gut myself than play PvP, but I don't think that Pvpers shouldn't get content at all because of that for example or that they shouldn't receive what they ask of the devs

You're showing a severe lack of critical thinking here. Everyone knows that different people find fun in different ways. No one will argue otherwise.

That however does not remove the concept of fun as an important and viable metric in content design no matter how much you wish it so.

For instance you probably found Eureka fun, and I found it to be one of the worst developed pieces of content I've ever seen across a decade of MMO gaming.

But here's the thing. It didn't have to be that way. I could have had fun too, if they actually designed something in the zone for a player like me to do, but they didn't...

FF14's needs to stop designing content for specific skill levels in an isolated fashion. It's an incredibly inefficient process and equally as juvenile. Grinds only artificially boost a given content's lifespan. When designing content they should be aiming to make each endeavor as robust as possible to offer multiple viable avenues of play.

If Chocobo Racing was Mario Kart/Crash Team Racing on Chocobos with summons and magic, it'd be really solid; fun for a lot of people. If it came with PVP and PVE matchmaking and a time attack mode even more would like it. If it had a level editor and shareable designs, you'd find even more people like it. THEN you throw in some cool rewards (speaking personally if I was the dev in charge, I would have put the entire chocobo coloring scheme and a ton of bardings behind this system, but alas they decided menu content was a better idea).

In the first sentence you get some people who like it. Adding matchmaking gets even more (without affecting the others), then you add a time attack mode to grab people who want to just race themselves, and then you add a level editor for people with a lot of free time and creativity, then you put some decent rewards in there to get the rest.

Do you get my point yet? You can design content for the bare minimum common denominator or you can design robust content.

[Remedi]

First of all no I don't find eureka fun since killing mobs zone can only keep my interest for not that long since I've done many of those in the past.
Second of all This zone was designed to be a mobs killing zone as such grindy as such if you didn't imagine that it would become that boring by it's very inception I don't know what to say to you.
You say that chocobo racing would be better if it was like mario kart, Nope would still be annoying to me.

Realize that ppl interests are different as such there won't be anything that will be the be all end all. If I don't like the premise of something coating it with sugar won't make me like it, maybe make it more tolerable but not like it.
The concpet of fun will always be a buzzword used to conceal real problems of implementations.
Fun is not the main problem in eureka, wasn't in diadem ans isn't in any other part of the game, it's the implementation of the features that matters and everytime someone says that fun is the problem is just scapegoating.

So no I will disagree on this fun argument because how much it hides real problems

Many ppl keep buying COD or battelfield does that means that the franchise is excellent btw? Mayority doesn't always mean good

[Alleo]

In the first sentence you get some people who like it. Adding matchmaking gets even more (without affecting the others), then you add a time attack mode to grab people who want to just race themselves, and then you add a level editor for people with a lot of free time and creativity, then you put some decent rewards in there to get the rest.

I 100% agree with this. We know that FF14 is a themepark but imo you should not just add more "rides" that are for certain groups because that 1. will make it not likeable by the rest and 2. if the intented group also does not like it you will have death content. There should be some content that are for a certain group and we do have that with raids and PVP. IMO the rest should be something that the majority can enjoy. Eureka is a good example of how its not good. This is just content for a group of people that like mindless grinding monsters (and there is nothing wrong with that btw) but since this was meant to be THE content for SB this is not good. I would dare and say that Eureka would be as death as diadem if it did not have the relic weapons and sets and certain other items behind it. Which means that for quite some content only the prices keep it alive. Diadem 2.0 had a price (the RNG weapon) that was just not worth it for most so it was even faster death than the first version. If they had made Eureka into something that could be enjoyed in different ways it would have probably became very successful and liked. (Like having something for gatherers, crafters and maybe getting to the relic on a different way than just doing fates and killing monsters)

The same with LoV. This again was designed for a certain part of the playerbase...but at the same time even for those that like this kind of thing it was bad if you are playing it on console..thus even those seems to not play it that much..had they done it more like Pokemon I would say that it would have been much more liked.

So they use their limited time and money and create way too many things that are only interesting for a certain part of the playerbase..and try to keep it alive with prices..but at soon as those prices are done (and in some cases even the prices wont keep it alive) and no new ones are coming later, it will be death.

Realize that ppl interests are different as such there won't be anything that will be the be all end all. If I don't like the premise of something coating it with sugar won't make me like it, maybe make it more tolerable but not like it.
The concpet of fun will always be a buzzword used to conceal real problems of implementations.
Fun is not the main problem in eureka, wasn't in diadem ans isn't in any other part of the game, it's the implementation of the features that matters and everytime someone says that fun is the problem is just scapegoating.

So no I will disagree on this fun argument because how much it hides real problems

Yes it would be unrealistic to have something that is fun for everyone but if they have something that can tickle the itch for many then it mostly will be a success. Like she said, if you have something that is only for a specific kind of group then you will only have that group playing it. (And maybe some others for the reward) But if you manage to greate something that can be interesting for a couple of groups you will increase the amount it is used.

I am also not really sure how we cant measure something with the word fun? How are you measuring content then for yourself? I play something longer if its fun. I might play it a bit if there is something as a reward that I really like but in the long run this content wont see me again. Because for me I play games for fun. For me, the missing fun was the problem for Eurkea or Diadem. I did not have fun playing it and found it boring and annoying. So I am not sure how this is not the problem? Because in the end those that found it fun are those that enjoy this kind of content, so again it was because they enjoyed it that they liked it.

In the end how can you say if something matters if you dont take fun into account? How does it then matter? What are points that you would use to say that something is good content? Maybe it would be nice to write more about this if you are seeing fun as something that should not define content and thus the discussion about it?