Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[KaldeaSahaline]

I didn't say SE were better at communicating. Doing more communication doesn't automatically mean said communication is actually good. You can say a lot without saying anything new or useful at all. As was aptly demonstrated by the latest live letter, personally I found a lot of it was mere repetition and too many questions had the same answers.

You said other developers are silent and SE wasn't. That's very heavily implying that you believe one is better than the other. You've since clarified your position though so we can move on from this though.

And I was also trying to dispel this myth some people believe that SE experience an outstanding epidemic of server and engine limitations compared to other mmos when the truth is all dev teams experience them daily. It just so happens SE openly mention theirs very very often.

You didn't dispel anything and it's not a myth, it's real. SE uses that excuse by a staggering margin for many technical requests the playerbase requests. Everyone knows that other companies suffer from it. That's common sense.

And to dispel this idea that I'm a white knight. snip

Agreed. I will retract my statement that you are a white knight. You've successfully demonstrated the ability to have a rational discussion and cite logical examples to clarify your position. I respect that.

while adding less dungeons during each expansion than XIV is currently on track to add even with the scaled back 2-1-2-1 pattern (assuming 5 major patches like before, we are still on track to add more in one expansion than Blizzard has ever managed with any of WoW's patches).

You're right, they weren't at the the content decline point we are currently at - they were already below it.

Hey Buddy, haven't seen you on MMO champ in a while.

Just wanted to chime in on this one - while it's true that FF14 has more dungeons (by end of expac) than WoW does, I'm not sure that we can simply measure quantity vs. quantity and call it even.

FF14 dungeons are exceptionally linear and follow the exact same formula each time. To add to it, they're extremely narrow in focus (i.e. rewards, target playerbase, etc.), lack depth, and are released 1 to 2 at time.

WoW dungeons start you off with a lot more variety and are considerably more deep, as well as offering scalable challenges and rewards for multiple player types. Not only that, but they aren't identical in format or layout.

So while it is a factual statement that FF14 produces MORE dungeon content than WoW, I'm not sold that it's a fair comparison.

A commendable effort...

But one that sounds significantly less impressive when you consider that it's from one version of the game's engine to a new version of the same engine, and much/most (and possibly all) of the work actually developing that engine was done by an entirely different company.

Upgrading your games codebase from UE3 to UE4 is not some one script and done affair. It's a complete redesign of the games code...

It honestly comes down to this choice:

a) Yoshi-P and team continues the regular patch release schedule with constant toss ups of content for different slices of players and staggers QoL additions/upgrades over the course of years.

OR

b) Game content is stagnated for 6-10 months or longer while they overhaul everything and implement what you're asking for, focusing only on QoL and 0 content. When the patch drops to add these changes, there will either be no content or very little content similar to the x.0 expansion release but without the 10 levels of MSQ and side story.

This is pretty reductive - but it's not far off. If SE developed more deep/robust content they could mitigate some of this risk. It would allow times when they devote more effort to QoL to not be so painstakingly shallow for the playerbase.

[Berethos]

FF14 dungeons are exceptionally linear and follow the exact same formula each time. To add to it, they're extremely narrow in focus (i.e. rewards, target playerbase, etc.), lack depth, and are released 1 to 2 at time.

WoW dungeons start you off with a lot more variety and are considerably more deep, as well as offering scalable challenges and rewards for multiple player types. Not only that, but they aren't identical in format or layout.

Last time I ran dungeons in WoW, they were also pretty linear. Some do allow for doing some bosses in a random order, but many are just as linear. I also don't see them as being any more or any less deep - you have trash to deal with, occasionally with a mechanic that needs to be handled, and then bosses with 3-4 major mechanics.

Not sure where you're getting that dungeons in FFXIV are identical in layout either - pretty sure each map is different. Often linear (as often as WoW's are, especially post-Vanilla content - the ones from the classic game are the only ones that really had the open variation, but that kind of design has been missing from new dungeons for about 11 years now), but that's nothing new for either MMO.

Speaking of identical - funny that of the two games, only one offers dungeons that are the "hard mode" of previous versions that are literally the same location, with the exact same bosses (occasionally you get that one extra tucked in a corner) and trash, and where everything just now hits harder and bosses maybe get a new ability or two...versus reimaginings of the location into a sort of "sequel" version of the dungeon that often leads to new spots on the map and has brand new bosses.

That all being said, you've missed the context of my comment, which was related to the amount of content (given that the person I was quoting specifically mocked what they saw as a decline with the suggestion that we'd be getting one new dungeon and one fight in savage, it's exceptionally clear they are talking about amount). WoW drops something like 5-7 with the expansion, keeps them around with additional difficulty modes (that are, again, the same dungeon with boosted enemies - they use that to great effect with their mythic system, but that's not what is being discussed - remember, the comment was about decline in amount, trying to switch it to a subjective discussion of quality just confuses the issue), and if those players are lucky they'll get 1-2 more in another patch before the 8 or so month lull before the next expansion (in a good year, which they've struggled to get back to after multiple year+ gaps).

As for the UE4 upgrade comment - I admit that I did undersell the effort on the part of the developer needed, but that was in response to what I feel was an overselling on your part. Bringing up that they are updating to a new engine, in a thread where talking about making upgrades to a game are common, and NOT clarifying that it's not an in-house engine and that another developer made the engine they are working with (in both cases, UE3 and UE4) implies that SQEX is holding back on us by not doing something similar.

When they'd have to redo their own engine/make a new one AND redo the code, you have a situation that isn't nearly as comparable as you seem to want to imply.