Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[Squintina]

I wish we could get a Community Manager in here to shed some light on how questions are chosen. If anything, that would help give us, the community/players, some guidance as to what to ask and how to phrase it so that the likelihood of it being asked would be higher.

I mean, yeah, they said "ask your burning questions" rather than around a certain topic, so it was pretty much a free-for-all. But I wish the community specialists would step in and say something like:

"Hey, we know X is important to you and we've noted that you've asked about it often. We're currently working on changes to X in the coming months, so please stay tuned as we'll have more information to share then."

Or even if it's not about 'kicking the can down the road', they could say something like:

"We understand that Y is important to players and it's important to us, too. Although we currently have no plans to integrate Y, because of (reason), rest assured that we hear you, and due to the nature of game development itself, this may change in the future."

I mean, that at least gives us a semblance of a yes/no and that our feedback is valued instead of "crickets".

Granted, the community managers' hands are probably tied too because things can EASILY get lost in translation/taken out of context. For example --

I asked a question about Gold Saucer rewards being updated to have a new "big shiny" thing to aim for. Perhaps it wasn't asked because (as an example) they're working on updates to the saucer that won't be live for another 3 months, but it may take as long as 6 months.

If they had said "we're working on adding new rewards to the saucer, but it will be a few more months until they are live" all the community would hear is "blitzball is coming".

See what I mean?

Actually ( a little off topic).

Yoshida showed up on Hyperion and told players that a new GS mini game was coming in 4.4 and it's not blitzball or snowboarding.

https://twitter.com/tackangel/status...25074358063104

[Berethos]

Watching the recent live letter I found myself feeling the same as all the others. Questions come up about things like more character creator options, new races, etc and are met with the same answers. "sorry too hard pls understand". Then they move on to the stuff they ARE working on.

I've been hearing the same thing from nearly every MMO company for years.

Very, very few actively make major changes to what they plan on adding based on player suggestions (those that are more flexible in this regard are typically those that are still in alpha/early access phases, and even then there's only so much "yeah, we're going to add this feature due to player suggestion" going on). Developers will often adjust aspects of what they are offering based on feedback, either in an ongoing iterative process after it hits live, or through testing phases on test servers, but it's rare when they just go "Yeah, we will add this completely new feature because you want it."

And the rare times when heavily requested features do get added, they often take several years before being brought into the game. Example: Blizzard's appearance log - their version of glamour was added in 2011, and despite an appearance log being an almost immediate request, was not added until 2016, even as they had acknowledged that it was something players wanted.

That's a reality across most MMO developers - you're getting what they plan, with some tweaks, and on rare occasions things the players asked for that weren't originally part of the plan. Why is it such a surprise that it happens here?

Do you know another thing that is a rare thing to be added? New character creation options. I know games that have updated character models (especially needed as their old models were noticeably different/older looking than newer models of enemies and NPCs, which isn't really a thing here - they've kept the look consistent for the most part so far), but those updates didn't actually add new character options. The closest I've seen to that kind of post launch addition is WoW's Allied Races, which are altered versions of several of the base races you can play that are treated like separate races, but they didn't actually add new faces or options to those base races.

Seems a bit odd to be so heavily criticizing the developers here for not doing things that other developers aren't doing either.

[Vhailor]

Seems a bit odd to be so heavily criticizing the developers here for not doing things that other developers aren't doing either.

Other developers have gotten it done. Products aren't graded on a curve, you know - you're supposed to follow in the footsteps of others, learn from their mistakes, and then turn around and do it better. WoW implemented their Glamour system roughly a year after FFXIV launched. The team at SE had the entire ARR re-design period, Heavensward, Stormblood - and, oh yeah, roughly five years of their own time - and a proper Glamour system still appears to be a ways off.

Plus - and I have to say, this isn't a point made often enough - SE is really digging their own grave here. The content of FFXIV is so ridiculously fucking shallow that it pushes an inordinate amount of focus onto QoL improvements. If XIV had a diverse array of content, players would be busy enough they wouldn't be nitpicking quite so much about the Glamour system, or Housing, or Character Creation. But the game is such a one-dimensional rat race outside of the MSQ, that people refer to Glamours as the true end-game - and it isn't a joke. Is it any wonder then that the system is under a great deal of scrutiny?

Get Yoshi-P off the fucking game already, install someone with an ounce of creativity and imagination, and I'll be first in line to defend SE when a few QoL issues go unresolved for longer than I might think is reasonable. But when all we see coming out of the studio is the same predictable (and dwindling) patch content for years on end, when almost every new 'original' piece of content is riddled with problems that the most junior QA tester should be able to catch? Well... then I'm less inclined to be particularly forgiving.

[GrumbleBeard]

Im fine with Story, Gameplay, and Content currently.

That's wonderful. Rather than immediately taking your advice to unsub, I will instead voice my concerns on the provided public forum.

Everybody cites WoW and their content release schedule taking years to implement things too. Of course, nobody is expecting SE to answer demands immediately (or at all in many cases). However, for what I played of it (vanilla/ bc) they weren't on content decline already by the point we're at. Look forward to 5.0 one dungeon, one fight for savage,

[Penthea]

Everybody cites WoW and their content release schedule taking years to implement things too. Of course, nobody is expecting SE to answer demands immediately (or at all in many cases). However, for what I played of it (vanilla/ bc) they weren't on content decline already by the point we're at. Look forward to 5.0 one dungeon, one fight for savage,

This really depends on your perspective. For over a decade the majority of WoW's content patches were near meaningless unless you raided (this may even still be the case, don't know because I don't play anymore). SE don't put such a disproportionate focus on their playerbase. This can be good because everyone gets a slice of cake but this can be bad because no one gets a big slice. Of course many players are content because several slices appeal to them but some only like one flavour so they can feel underfed.

There is a big difference between a lack of content and a lack of content that appeals to a person.

[Melichoir]

snip

Theres a difference between saying "Hey, thanks for the game, Its been fun, but there are somethings that Id like to see..." and "Are the devs just not in touch with the layer base! Theyre adding this thing I dont like, and always dodge questions regarding the things I want, and..."

Sorry, but your original post sounds more like dissatisfaction as a whole, particularly if your asking if the devs are even on the same page as the player base. If you dont think they are, then posting your opinion here is moot other than to get a few thumbs up from like minded folks. If they are paying attention, then being fairly negative to them from the get go isnt going to garner you much favor. So as I said, if the former is true, speak with your wallet. Theyll get the message. If the latter is true, then stating theyre not in touch is not a great way to open a conversation with the people providing you a service.

[GrumbleBeard]

Theres a difference between saying "Hey, thanks for the game, Its been fun, but there are somethings that Id like to see..." and "Are the devs just not in touch with the layer base! Theyre adding this thing I dont like, and always dodge questions regarding the things I want, and..."

I'm sorry if you can only see things in extremes. There are tons of threads requesting things, and had I been requesting something I would have posted it in the relevant thread. This thread was intended to discuss the seemingly growing trend of them doing just less of everything in general.

Sorry, but your original post sounds more like dissatisfaction as a whole, particularly if your asking if the devs are even on the same page as the player base. If you dont think they are, then posting your opinion here is moot other than to get a few thumbs up from like minded folks. If they are paying attention, then being fairly negative to them from the get go isnt going to garner you much favor.

They actually have (rarely seen) community members whose job it is to relay information back to the relevant people. See the removal of Need in 24 man raids, something they thought was a great idea and was quickly removed to to outrage. Whether you think that is a more legitimate reason than mine or not is irrelevant, your opinion is no more valuable than mine and vice versa and I can only speak for myself.

So as I said, if the former is true, speak with your wallet. Theyll get the message.

They've been hemorrhaging older subs for years and nothing has changed.

[Melichoir]

Aiite so it comes back to the very same thing: You open up with derision. That does not seem pragmatic if you want to deliver a message to the Devs. Yes, you can have criticisms, but if its "Hey Devs are out of touch cause theyre doing things I hate like implementing some garbage bike!", youre not going to have as good luck. People who complained about removing Need, yeah some of them were pretty "WTF Outrageous", but you know, it was probably people being straightforward in their position and giving appropriate feedback. Mind you, they probably removed it to address an issue they saw and realized it made things worse.


But heres what you did:
-Disregard their responses to inquiries you have by overs implification (and implying it was very aloof as well).
- Put down an collab event because "probably short lived".
- Mogstation items that are immersion breaking, particularly the "Ugly, immersion breaking motorcycle". Something people did actually request a few times.
- Dismissing these things as "Theyre nice, but not substantial!" and "These dont get people excited anymore!"

Then you proceed to talk about what the focus should be (based on your tastes).

You pretty much slammed them for not doing things you want, particularly in character customization. You want to convey a message, maybe making your thread title "Are the Developers of XIV out of touch?" and then slamming them a bit and putting down their projects isnt a great way to do it.

I have to point out too: For every large patch, theyve pretty much been adding glamour items and haircuts for people. New mounts which add to the flavor of your character. Armors and weaps too. And yet "They dont care about customization," in your eyes. I wonder if youve even considered their end, to be frank. Ive pointed out that adding more indepth customization can really break things in the game unless its done right, and that takes time. And yes, theyre running on an older engine because thats part of the point of recooping costs from FFXIV 1.0. You think MMOs just rebuild their engines every year like its nothing?

Im gonna stick to my guns on this: Sounds like youre dissatisfied. Sounds like youre not getting what you want. And if you have to ask if the Devs are listening, then I imagine you already have a pessimistic outlook on the game. Afterall, youre saying theyre hemorrhaging subs for years and nothing has changed, so they must not be then. So why are you still playing? The writing on the wall, according to you, is they dont listen or care. So why are you spending your money on something you dont enjoy.

[Berethos]

However, for what I played of it (vanilla/ bc) they weren't on content decline already by the point we're at. Look forward to 5.0 one dungeon, one fight for savage,

By BC, they were already experiencing 8+ months of content gaps after the last raid before the next expansion would launch (Sunwell launched in March 08, Wrath wouldn't launch until Nov 08), while adding less dungeons during each expansion than XIV is currently on track to add even with the scaled back 2-1-2-1 pattern (assuming 5 major patches like before, we are still on track to add more in one expansion than Blizzard has ever managed with any of WoW's patches).

You're right, they weren't at the the content decline point we are currently at - they were already below it.

[Remedi]

By BC, they were already experiencing 8+ months of content gaps after the last raid before the next expansion would launch (Sunwell launched in March 08, Wrath wouldn't launch until Nov 08), while adding less dungeons during each expansion than XIV is currently on track to add even with the scaled back 2-1-2-1 pattern (assuming 5 major patches like before, we are still on track to add more in one expansion than Blizzard has ever managed with any of WoW's patches).

You're right, they weren't at the the content decline point we are currently at - they were already below it.

There was a huge content gap between black temple and sunwell too, Zul'aman was the only thing in between, but if you cleared Black temple.....ehhhh.......Happy Bear mount? I guess? I mean it was a very good dungeon, but you cared about 25 man prog you had a long wait