Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[Vhailor]

Seems a bit odd to be so heavily criticizing the developers here for not doing things that other developers aren't doing either.

Other developers have gotten it done. Products aren't graded on a curve, you know - you're supposed to follow in the footsteps of others, learn from their mistakes, and then turn around and do it better. WoW implemented their Glamour system roughly a year after FFXIV launched. The team at SE had the entire ARR re-design period, Heavensward, Stormblood - and, oh yeah, roughly five years of their own time - and a proper Glamour system still appears to be a ways off.

Plus - and I have to say, this isn't a point made often enough - SE is really digging their own grave here. The content of FFXIV is so ridiculously fucking shallow that it pushes an inordinate amount of focus onto QoL improvements. If XIV had a diverse array of content, players would be busy enough they wouldn't be nitpicking quite so much about the Glamour system, or Housing, or Character Creation. But the game is such a one-dimensional rat race outside of the MSQ, that people refer to Glamours as the true end-game - and it isn't a joke. Is it any wonder then that the system is under a great deal of scrutiny?

Get Yoshi-P off the fucking game already, install someone with an ounce of creativity and imagination, and I'll be first in line to defend SE when a few QoL issues go unresolved for longer than I might think is reasonable. But when all we see coming out of the studio is the same predictable (and dwindling) patch content for years on end, when almost every new 'original' piece of content is riddled with problems that the most junior QA tester should be able to catch? Well... then I'm less inclined to be particularly forgiving.

[Melichoir]

snip

Theres a difference between saying "Hey, thanks for the game, Its been fun, but there are somethings that Id like to see..." and "Are the devs just not in touch with the layer base! Theyre adding this thing I dont like, and always dodge questions regarding the things I want, and..."

Sorry, but your original post sounds more like dissatisfaction as a whole, particularly if your asking if the devs are even on the same page as the player base. If you dont think they are, then posting your opinion here is moot other than to get a few thumbs up from like minded folks. If they are paying attention, then being fairly negative to them from the get go isnt going to garner you much favor. So as I said, if the former is true, speak with your wallet. Theyll get the message. If the latter is true, then stating theyre not in touch is not a great way to open a conversation with the people providing you a service.

[GrumbleBeard]

Theres a difference between saying "Hey, thanks for the game, Its been fun, but there are somethings that Id like to see..." and "Are the devs just not in touch with the layer base! Theyre adding this thing I dont like, and always dodge questions regarding the things I want, and..."

I'm sorry if you can only see things in extremes. There are tons of threads requesting things, and had I been requesting something I would have posted it in the relevant thread. This thread was intended to discuss the seemingly growing trend of them doing just less of everything in general.

Sorry, but your original post sounds more like dissatisfaction as a whole, particularly if your asking if the devs are even on the same page as the player base. If you dont think they are, then posting your opinion here is moot other than to get a few thumbs up from like minded folks. If they are paying attention, then being fairly negative to them from the get go isnt going to garner you much favor.

They actually have (rarely seen) community members whose job it is to relay information back to the relevant people. See the removal of Need in 24 man raids, something they thought was a great idea and was quickly removed to to outrage. Whether you think that is a more legitimate reason than mine or not is irrelevant, your opinion is no more valuable than mine and vice versa and I can only speak for myself.

So as I said, if the former is true, speak with your wallet. Theyll get the message.

They've been hemorrhaging older subs for years and nothing has changed.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

We are down to only 2 jobs an expansion because muh tank/healer balance 2 hard.

They outright said it takes almost a year to fully balance and test each new job. Considering Astro and Machinist were borderline unplayable at release, I hazard a guess they wanted to focus on quality and not quantity this time. Samurai and Red mage may have their issues, but both function well in their overall design.

Each patch takes longer and longer and has less content.

Now this is simply false. They have released roughly the same amount since Heavensward. Let's review!

3.3

MSQ
Sohr Khai
Hullbreaker (Hard)
Nidhogg EX
Warring Triad
The Weeping City
Hildbrand
Anima weapons
Moogle Beast Tribe
Aquapolis

4.3

MSQ
Swallow's Compass
Tsukiyomi EX
Four Lords
Ultima's Refrain: Ultimate (4.31)
Ridorana Lighthouse
Hildbrand
Eureka (4.36)
Namazu Beast Tribe
Heaven on High (4.35)

The only difference between these two patches is they have since adopted a staggered release schedule in lieu of offering everything at once—much to my dislike. Nevertheless, it's still an equate amount of content to patch 3.3 which had no addition updates of a comparable scale.

[Penthea]

What made it white knighting was you irrationally justifying that somehow SE is really good at communicating and everyone else wasn't

I didn't say SE were better at communicating. Doing more communication doesn't automatically mean said communication is actually good. You can say a lot without saying anything new or useful at all. As was aptly demonstrated by the latest live letter, personally I found a lot of it was mere repetition and too many questions had the same answers.

I was simply stating that SE are often more likely to, for whatever reason, plainly say when they are unable to do something. Whereas many other dev teams often tend to keep that fact to themselves until after they have actually addressed it and have the content that was once impossible to do actually available to players. The timing of when you reveal the obstacles has great impact in how players respond to it and even remember it.

And I was also trying to dispel this myth some people believe that SE experience an outstanding epidemic of server and engine limitations compared to other mmos when the truth is all dev teams experience them daily. It just so happens SE openly mention theirs very very often.

And to dispel this idea that I'm a white knight. I found that the whole greed only mess was definitely an example of SE not being in touch with their playerbase. I think that having to pay for extra storage when we already pay for a sub is a disgrace. SE seriously lacked foresight in limiting how many cash shop items can be account wide, it's not as if they couldn't see examples of this done better in other games. I find the glamour system awkward as hell and glamour plates only make it bearable now. The housing system is far better than before but is yet another example of a severe lack of foresight. I feel the new pvp system stripped down classes far too much. SE's attempts to lessen the congestion on Balmung were laughably far too late by several years. I could go on.

I adore the game but I sure as hell don't think it's perfect, and I sure as hell am not some white knight. I am just not quick to act as if I'm under the impression that only SE experience the shackles of engine and server limitations.

[Vhailor]

I adore the game but I sure as hell don't think it's perfect, and I sure as hell am not some white knight. I am just not quick to act as if I'm under the impression that only SE experience the shackles of engine and server limitations.

One thing from my perspective is that I very much feel as if, for SE, server limitations are a barrier that often gets magically resolved by paying more money or doing things that are otherwise-profitable for SE. That's frustrating to me as a player, and it's largely why I'm so quick to trigger.

For example, storage space and a proper Retainer management system are two problems that are very difficult to resolve for X Y and Z but... pay us $5/mo for a mobile app that we're releasing soon, and voila! All fixed! Getting annoyed at the horrible slog we created with 2.x content? We feel you, but really, it's just too much work to redesign it - so we'll sell you a Jump Potion instead. Want a functioning data center, EU? Well, that's why we need things like the Mog Station... the subscriptions just aren't enough. Want to be able to access those items in an unsubbed Retainer? Well, yeah, we keep records of them anyway - but unless you renew your $2/mo ripoff fee, no access for you.

Obviously I understand that SE is a company, and the goal of a company is to make money, but they've got to work on their game face in terms of PR. It's not a good idea to claim issues are difficult / impossible to resolve, and then turn around and solve them down the road but lock the solution behind a paywall. That says you're being cheap, not that you're struggling to solve traditional and normal MMO-related technical challenges. I can sympathize with the tech side - it's difficult. But it feels like they just don't care to try unless we pad their pockets beyond the huge amounts of money FFXIV is already bringing in.

[Penthea]

One thing from my perspective is that I very much feel as if, for SE, server limitations are a barrier that often gets magically resolved by paying more money or doing things that are otherwise-profitable for SE. That's frustrating to me as a player, and it's largely why I'm so quick to trigger.

I readily admit a cynical part of me very strongly thinks SE are slow to fix certain QoL issues because they do profit from them being in their current state. The biggest contender for this right now im my opinion is the cash shop. I don't doubt SE are being honest when they say there are limitations. But their wording needs to be carefully read. As far as I recall they said why they cannot make everything account wide now, but did not state they were working on it or that it was something considered high priority (do correct me if I am misremembering). Maybe Yoshida's hands are tied and he literally cannot say more, but the fact is even if players dislike it...the cash shop is working as intended in SE's favour. Of course they'll be slow to fix it.

I'm more likely to believe their claims of limitations when it's related to something we automatically get as part of the subscription, such as the glamour system for example.

[BillyKaplan]

For example, storage space and a proper Retainer management system are two problems that are very difficult to resolve for X Y and Z but... pay us $5/mo for a mobile app that we're releasing soon, and voila!

While frustrating in light of everything else, those two things are what actually makes sense to me. It's all assumptions, granted, but what if that particular retainer is stored not on the regular servers like everything else, but dedicated storage? Then the fee makes sense because it's space not funded by the base subscription (I said it made sense to me, not that I supported it).
As for the retainer management issues, this shows the problem isn't with the infrastructure but with the specific implementation in the game. I'm not defending this being locked behind a paywall, mind, just that I get why when they made something new from the ground up instead of however the in-game retainer system works, that a lot of limitations were solved. Now if they can be bothered to put that in-game and it'll be lovely.

Getting annoyed at the horrible slog we created with 2.x content? We feel you, but really, it's just too much work to redesign it - so we'll sell you a Jump Potion instead.

That wasn't Yoshida's answer at all in E3. And while it's more of the "please look forward to it", I was honestly expecting him to point to the Jump Potions, not say that they're actually working on it.

[Remedi]

That wasn't Yoshida's answer at all in E3. And while it's more of the "please look forward to it", I was honestly expecting him to point to the Jump Potions, not say that they're actually working on it.

Ye I think he said that they have a plan panned out but it'll take this, that was interesting to say the least, maybe a slight rework of the old work will come eventually too I suppose

[Minako_Nightsong]

I also watched the live letter and I could not help but notice some outright contempt by Yoshida towards many of the questions. Glamour libraries, revamping character creation, and streamlining older content is something other mmos have and take for granted so I do not understand his frustration when this game's players ask for those same things.

Maybe it's a culture thing but at times he even seemed a little pissed off as he explained some of his answers.