So about Summoner...

[Caduagm]

How many first clears have a BLM?

Dude, all the posts I've seen you posting in this thread have very poor arguments/make no sense at all.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
Well we had BLM first in ALL the Final Coil fights.
We had BLM first in BOTH Gordias and Midas and some fights of creator.
We had no SMN first in Deltascape.
We had no SMN first in UCoB.
I have no clue about Sigmascape.
Stop victmizing BLM.
Again, stop.

[Zerathor]

Dude, all the posts I've seen you posting in this thread have very poor arguments/make no sense at all.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
Well we had BLM first in ALL the Final Coil fights.
We had BLM first in BOTH Gordias and Midas and some fights of creator.
We had no SMN first in Deltascape.
We had no SMN first in UCoB.
I have no clue about Sigmascape.
Stop victmizing BLM.
Again, stop.

Great counter argument. (its not)

While i did forget a bit on blm clearing some fights in the past, it doesn't change the relevance of where the job is currently. and if you honestly think these 2 jobs are on par when one has 371 clears of a fight, while the other has less than 10, i'm not sure where you get your metric.

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/19#b...ummoner&page=4

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/19#b...spec=BlackMage

UwU will be no different.

so actually you.
Stop.
Being.
Blind.
Again, stop.

[Sunako]

UwU will be no different.

Do you think nerfing summoner would make BLM more valuable in UwU?

UwU have lower dps check. They wanted players focus more mechanics than dps. currently 4x rdms have cleared UwU and 4x SMNs. From same reason majority of players play whm over astro. WHM is totally trash dps wise. Still players prefer RDM and WHM for UwU Because it is lot easier progress that fight with these jobs.

[Zerathor]

Do you think nerfing summoner would make BLM more valuable in UwU?

UwU have lower dps check. They wanted players focus more mechanics than dps. currently 4x rdms have cleared UwU and 4x SMNs. From same reason majority of players play whm over astro. WHM is totally trash dps wise. Still players prefer RDM and WHM for UwU Because it is lot easier progress that fight with these jobs.

honestly i just want blm to get a buff to the point its a viable option (in ult). be that from a noticeable dps gain over smn, or letting them have some kind of unique group utility again.

[Sunako]

honestly i just want blm to get a buff to the point its a viable option (in ult). be that from a noticeable dps gain over smn, or letting them have some kind of unique group utility again.

BLM have already get buffed like 200+ dps and summoner have get nerfed around 100 dps from UCOB. It does not matter even if blm is top dps, players want raise for ultimate progress. It not matter how much is your dps once you practice. It not matter if you mana become 0 and you can not dps. What matter is you can practice the boss mechanics little longer without 10 min warmp up every time. Nobody want BLM during progressing long fights like ultimate. As long BLM not have raise it is poor state in progress if you dont play with second caster. BLM is totally viable in ultimate, but nobody want it during progress.

[Zerathor]

BLM have already get buffed like 200+ dps and summoner have get nerfed around 100 dps from UCOB. It does not matter even if blm is top dps, players want raise for ultimate progress. It not matter how much is your dps once you practice. It not matter if you mana become 0 and you can not dps. What matter is you can practice the boss mechanics little longer without 10 min warmp up every time. Nobody want BLM during progressing long fights like ultimate. As long BLM not have raise it is poor state in progress if you dont play with second caster. BLM is totally viable in ultimate, but nobody want it during progress.

How much dps is a raise worth? There is a value where it becomes an option to consider, but at the moment its nowhere near the value it should be. But its hard to say what it should be.

Either way, a group shield, or resist, or something, any kind of utility that would be useful. Any of that would be a viable option to give them. This whole concept of the "greedy dps" has turned into a flop on its worth. For blm and sam

[Sunako]

How much dps is a raise worth? There is a value where it becomes an option to consider, but at the moment its nowhere near the value it should be.

Raise is not worth of any dps. There is not single way how raise would improve your group dps performance. During progress any dps is not worth of raise. Think about if you could make practice party for ultima only without needing garuda/ifrit/titan phase at all. I mean if there would be practice mode. Would you rather take blm that have 1k more dps, but you have to start from garuda or would you rather take rdm with 1k less dps as handicap, but you can start progress from ultima and skip first 10 minutes? Because that is what raise theoretically is. You can practice more mechanics in single pull even after mistakes and that way progress lot faster.

[Neela]

Dude, all the posts I've seen you posting in this thread have very poor arguments/make no sense at all.
Stop embarrassing yourself.

actually this... and with every post u do Zera it shows more and more that your experience in raiding or caster cls at all are poor. your goal is to get blm in ultimate? thats why you bash and hate smns state atm? sorry to disappoint you but blm won't take that spot even if they cut smns dps by half. you are just salty that the fights aren't designed for a blms favor. its not about the res, nor the dps - its about smns mobility which kicks blms ass and your ego, nothing else. all your arguments about first clears, prog, dps, utility won't change the fact that blm wont be top choice for endgame (progress) - if you wanna flame someone flame se for the level design and not a cls who actually fits that design better than yours.

[Zerathor]

snip.

The more you reply the more clear it is that you actually haven't read anything at all in this thread actually. Or even bothered to look me up for that matter, yet claim I don't have experience with casters.

Also, mobility? It's mobility as the core reason smn > blm? I think it's clear who lacks experience in this argument between us, and I'll give you a hint: it's you.

But hey, it's nice you messed up and admitted we're right by acknowledging these fights are far more catered to smn than blm. So thank you for finally agreeing that there's a problem.

[TelosNox]

Mobility is only an argument, if we compare plain training dummy dps.
If we compare real boss fights then mobility already is contained in the measured dps. So there is nothing to complain if the real bossfight is balanced according to self dps + support.

And BLM has a good amount of mobility, it just has to be planned. BLM has 3x instant cast + 1x instant cast. He can teleport towards another player, he can teleport to his leylines and scathe is intant as well (yes it is a dps loss but better than nothing).

RDM has not a single GCD instant cast except from swiftcast which is needed to gamble for procs, so it is not for free use. Instead he has small repeating timeslots where he can move. This needs planning as well. No free running like BLM.

Yes SMN has the simplest way for free movement. But at cost of a small amount of dps and a big amount of mana if not timed with trance or bahamut. Usually SMN is NOT allowed to use swiftcast for dps, so he is able to raise. SMNs movement is not as OP as others think.

If not needed too often then BLM can move without any dps or mana loss just by timing swiftcast and sharpcast as needed or by using teleport.
RDM can move without DPS loss as well if he does not need to move very fast and can make several smaller steps.

So the only mechanics where SMN really has advantage with movement is if you have to move a lot and often in a small amount of time. In all other cases it is just different but not necessarily worse.