So about Summoner...

[Sunako]

If you need a singletarget fight, then have a look at Kefka for compare as well. BLM > SAM there.

Not only adds affect the efficiency of a job, downtimes and movement mechanics affect it as well.

SAM needs uptime on the boss because he has nearly no delayable bursts and higanbana suffers a lot when the boss disappers early after application. Buffs run out too if the boss is untargetable for too long time.
MNK has a similar problem. That's why MNK and SAM do so well in O6. No positionals, 100% uptime.

You simply can not balance for all kinds of bosses.

And the crazy ADD dps for top SMN on O5 results from delaying bahamut trance and keeping 2 etherstacks and then to combine 2 painflare with deathflare (start trance and end it immediately) and then call bahamut and enkindle.
But if you don't "cheat" and use the skip strategy the SMN will get problems with his ghost in the passenger cabin. Because there is nothing left he can use. This is very specific to that single fight.

Ya in faust kefka samurai is bad because slashing debuff fall off skill speed buff fall off, damage buff fall off 3 times while blm have infinite enochian and BLM can collect free fouls. If you compare god kefka. BLM is behind samurai again because fight have no downtime. And yes that is true, it is impossible balance all fights for all jobs. You would need balance every job after every raid tier based how much downtime, aoe or singletarget fight have. Sound pretty much impossible.

[Neela]

This mentality needs to die.

"nerf xyz cause its stronger than my cls"

needs to die at first - cause thats what it is all about - in every "meta" topic ever since... /thread

[TelosNox]

For me it is absolutely ok if the jobs somehow close to each other if contribution by buffs is considered.

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/21
It seems that this is ok for all physical dps if you consider all current savage fights.
But casters are not balanced at all. For SMN it might be a bit specific because of the fights where he has bigger fight specific advantages (Train, Guardian and Kekfa). I know he is a bit ahead of BLM but I am not sure how much it really is. A slight nerf is a must.
RDM needs a buff! It is not acceptable that RDM is 2nd last with that little bit of dps support.

[Zerathor]

"nerf xyz cause its stronger than my cls"

needs to die at first - cause thats what it is all about - in every "meta" topic ever since... /thread

It's about ballance. If you honestly cant see smn is out ranking other casters by a good margin, you're blind. It's blatantly unfair and unhealthy to the game.

Maybe one day you'll be able to comprehend this if smn gets a bad patch and falls to bottom tier caster slot. A smn has never been forced into other jobs.

[Tsurayu]

It's about ballance. If you honestly cant see smn is out ranking other casters by a good margin, you're blind. It's blatantly unfair and unhealthy to the game.

Maybe one day you'll be able to comprehend this if smn gets a bad patch and falls to bottom tier caster slot. A smn has never been forced into other jobs.

Heh, clearly you didn't play Summoner for the entirety of 2.X. Wasn't exactly broken, but certainly was "bottom tier" caster, so tell your sob story to someone else.

Honestly, I'd feel more sympathetic towards this discussion if it wasn't so blatantly biased. It just screams of "Wah! Black Mage isn't on top anymore, nerf Summoner so I can be back on top!" I do agree that Black Mage should be doing more damage than Summoner given that Black Mage is built more like a "selfish DPS" class, but it is still doing more damage, albeit Summoner's potential is perhaps higher than it should be. But most of this topic is about "NERF SUMMONER!" instead of trying to be proactive and adjust Black Mage. But no, why try to buff Black Mage when you can hate on your fellow Summoners and nerf them, right? Whatever.

[CreinCrein]

Maybe one day you'll be able to comprehend this if smn gets a bad patch and falls to bottom tier caster slot. A smn has never been forced into other jobs.

I guess I could comprehend it throughout all of 2.xx, 3.xx and early 4.xx then, since summoner has only recently moved itself into the meta. The fourth raid slot has never been more competitive with meta groups running monk/summoner/machinist; pretty healthy in comparison to the double ranged meta we had for close to two years(?) now.

[Neela]

Maybe one day you'll be able to comprehend this if smn gets a bad patch and falls to bottom tier caster slot. A smn has never been forced into other jobs.

maybe one day u will actually know what u are talking about... until than u should study eorzeas history instead trying to lecture me.


with the latest pot buffs of the selfish ones & the (at least for me) well balanced range cls' its exactly like Crein said: its first time in history that there is a fair logical and tactical competition given in the dds meta slots. the only one who could get a slight buff is rdm, else raid situation is refreshed and pretty interessting atm - keep your saltiness for yourself... there are still fights where blm & sams easily kick smns ass to death so whats the matter of balance everybody is talking about...?

...and even if summoner seems a lil bit yolo atm - its finally hella fun playing it, isn't it what matters in the end?...

[RainDurell]

...and even if summoner seems a lil bit yolo atm - its finally hella fun playing it, isn't it what matters in the end?...

There's no arguing with you if you think "so what if they're a bit op, its fun being op" is fine.
Enough with the "bias" replies; I tried UCoB with Summoner and I had alot of fun. I did Sigmascape as a RDM. I don't play solely BLM.
I didn't propose any solution, I didn't say "nerf smn" or "buff blm", I stated that SMN is dominating all other casters by a significant margin. Stop trying to claim it as "salty blm tears", I'm stating FACTS.
Look at the God Kefka logs. No Adds, no downtime, and SMN is just about equal with BLM. This would be fine if SMN didn't have any utility, but because they do, they simply do the same (if not more in mobility/add focused fights) damage as BLM, and have far more utility than BLM, who in turn, has NO utility.

Heck, let's stop talking about BLM for a second. How is it fair that SMN does SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than MNK NIN DRG BRD MCH RDM in most fights, while bringing about the same amount of utility as atleast half of them, and remaining absolutely mobile for the entirety of the fight? Isn't mobility and big utility the reason why BRD/MCH are designed to be weaker in personal DPS? Sure they have considerably better utility than SMN, but the margin between BRD/MCH and SMN is way too big if the reason is just having slightly less utility than them.

[Neela]

I'm stating FACTS.

oh u wanna talk about facts and fairness? than tell me how fair smns last 3 years past was, were they never took the slightest role in raiding at all? hmm.. but well like you opend your hypocratical post "enough with bias replies" k?

[Zerathor]

there are still fights where blm & sams easily kick smns ass to death so whats the matter of balance everybody is talking about...?

see, there is the thing you don't understand. it shouldn't be most fights, it should be all. and it shouldn't remotely even be a contest. you have a raise, and zero momentum based rotation thats so mobile i struggle to even consider smn a "caster". ohoho, inb4 "wellll you lose muh 20 potency for casting r2" not only is that adorable compared to losing 400 potency, but i'm not even talking about that. your r3 filler spell is a goddamn gcd cast time. thats a joke to slide cast.