A(nother) Secret of the Lily Rework Thread

[Ghishlain]

This part is great.

This would be better. Aside from CDR still not being interesting, not wiping out all the lilies every time you blink would help make it feel like a resource that you're supposed to manage and care about instead of "if it does something, okay, if not, whatever", which is what it is right now.

Glad you approve

What they could have done, is make it a kind of aoe mini shield. You throw it on someone and the nearby people get a "splash" of it on them. Less powerful than the original target but still protected. We have water skill, it can be a water shield!

I wouldn't mind this. Heck, I wouldn't mind just more... Water things in general. The CNJ/WHM kit is very lacking in the Water department >>; I think the only spells / abilities I know that are considered Water affinity is Esuna and Fluid Aura (and heck, Esuna is now a cross role..).

Benison feels water like but I dunno if it counts as a subset of the "Holy" power that WHM gives.

[Ceasaria]

Benison feels water like but I dunno if it counts as a subset of the "Holy" power that WHM gives.

For Fluid Aura, Divine Benison and Thin Air, you can hear Water sound effect.
The others as Assize, Asylum, for me it's Light sound effect.

[Keridwyn]

As a casual healer I can't find more than extremely situational use for Fluid Aura and Repose outside of sometimes when I'm soloing in Eureka and get too close to an extra mob. They need to be changed up or shuffled around.

Fluid Aura: Would it be too OP if Fluid Aura was replaced by Divine Benison's effect? Would it break the game if Fluid Aura put a 15% HP shield on our selves/target every 30s? It could upgrade and be replaced by Divine Benison which could have either an extended duration or maybe absorb a higher percentage of HP.

Or, if that would be too powerful, what about turning it into a small splash cure? Just a 100 potency instant heal that would hit the primary and maybe targets in close proximity to it? It could even tie into the Lily system later on like Asylum, Assize, Tetra, and the other OGCD heals.

Repose: Instead of being a sleep spell could it possibly become an aggro dump? We could really use another one of those that's not tied to our mana.

Just spitballing here I'm not sure how these might impact endgame.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Very nice ideas. I 100% agree on lilies needing to be gained through another source outside of CureI/II.
The way I see it, lilies are as useless as Plenary indulgence was back when it only generated from cure spells.

The main problem is, SE is stuck in this idea that WHM should be a pure healer, and designed lilies around that, but why should a pure healer only be limited to hardcasted heals? There should be rewards for healing in general, not only a very specific way. So far they're the only job who's job gauge means absolutely nothing to them, and that simply shouldn't be the case. It should be considered a failure by SE and should be reworked just like WAR or 4.0 SCH was. And this should happen BEFORE 5.0, because I don't want our main addition added in 5.0 being a functional lily system while everyone else gets new things.

[Miste]

I agree with this idea.

I think lillies should be gained by simply playing the job as a whole and not limited to only 2 spells like it is now.

[Myrhn]

I like a lot your way of gaining the lilies. I just think the usage of lilies is still underwhelming. Cooldown reduction is not enough and this way of gaining them that is a but slow will most likely end up using an ability that use a lily when we just have one.

[Sebazy]

I got the impression that assize wouldn’t get it’s cooldown reduced by lily 2 in Kisa’s suggestion

[Ilenya]

Secrets of the Lily II
Any GCD heal that recovers at least 10% HP, removes 5 seconds from all currently ticking oGCD recast timers (including role actions like Largesse, Swiftcast and Lucid Dreaming) until there is 10 seconds remaining.

Looks like it'd include Assize to me.

Speaking of, I was curious about one part of both of these. They treat Cure/CureII with the same respect as Regen and the normal GCD heals, and they give the same amount. Under this idea, why not let them give a bit more? Also, for the No DPS one, why not let the DPS skills give some, but a lesser amount, if you are so adamant about not allowing it? Your way makes Lilies just as useless solo because you just aren't going to heal yourself that much.

[Ceasaria]

suggestion

If I understand well, we would have 3 Lily under 51 secondes ?
And for what ? 20% reduction on one skill among those listed ?

Your first part with "cast GCD", "bar", "100 ressources" is good but in the end it would change nothing if the generation of lilies is too long combined to low rewards.

"Alternatively, the bonuses to Lilies can be changed to a unique bonus based on the skill (IE Divine Benison gains a higher %-bonus, Aslyum can gain a potency bonus, etc. to help flesh out the WHM identity with the Lilies.)"

Yeah it would be better or either 3 lilies generated within 30 sec (and the large problem remain with Divine Benison which is casted every 30 sec, so the other skills can't benefit from Lilies).

[Sylvain]

Just because the proposed lili would proc of dps skill, this (or anything remotely close) won't happen.

As much as I don't agree entirely with Kisai, the first thing she says is true regarding SE view of what a healer should do.

I don't think it's that they don't want us to dps, but they don't want to force us to dps. In other words, they won't include a mechanic that enhance your healing if you dps.

What you propose is that, if you want more heals, you better spam those rocks. And this definitely goes against healer's design in this game.
There isn't a single mechanic among the 3 healers that rewards dps with more healing. In fact it's usually the contrary, dpsing might reduce your healing output, but never the opposite.

Any lilie proposition involving dps skill is, imo, useless and a waste of time.

I mean they're not dumb, they know that if they'd do something rewarding healer dps (with something else than the dps itself) people would consider this gameplay as mandatory. (even tho it's somewhat already the case)
If you could consume lilies to shoot a dps skill, no one would use lilies on anything else
If you could always draw the king of the crowns, you'd be frowned up for using the lady
If Selene could attack, people would kick you for using Eos

There's a reason healer have no proper dps mechanic or anything rewarding you for dpsing.
The only reason we get new dps skill (usually single target) is to solo content.

Healer dps is seen as optional. (damn even Y.P had to say "I would like to remind people that healer first role is to heal in raid and that boss are deisgned around healer doing no damage at all")
So anytime you propose something for healer, be mindful of that.

The best you could get is a dps mechanic boosting another dps mechanic. But a dps mechanic enhancing your healing capacity, nope. At least not until they change their mind and consider healer should dps.


Personally, if they were to ever do something remotely close to a dps gauge for WHM, it would be separated from the lilies.

Like "thorns" or something.