Realistic 5.0 Jobs

**Mikey_R** · 06-09-2018 03:35 AM

As a disclaimer, these thoughts are from someone who has never played any other MMO, as a result, if you feel I have misinterpreted something, or you want to add/criticise anything, I encourage it. Just note, I do like playing devils advocate, but I feel it is the best way to get solid ideas that could actually work.

An idea I that could potentially work for Chemist, that uses both MP and TP is a system where you could use semi spammable skills to enhance your normal abilities. To draw a parallel to WHM, Potion would be cure, Hi-Potion would be Cure 2, Mega-potion would be Medica etc. You would use MP to use these abilities, just like a normal healer, however, you can use your TP to activate a buff that gives the next heal a regen effect, or a shield effect, these obviously can't be as powerful as what a WHM or Scholar brings, but it is a bit of flexibility in what you need for each situation.

Going on to damage items, things like Red Fang, or White Fang can be used, you could even use the same potion enhancing abilities to change the DPS items, the 'regen' could give the added benefit of a DoT, the shield..I have nothing good outside of AoE or extra damage, but maybe a physical/magical defence down.

This is just something I thought of in the last half hour, I don't know how well it would work, but I think it would be an interesting idea.

As for a Beast Master Tank, I just think, no, it won't work. As a tank, I know how important positioning is, move slightly to dodge an AoE to step back so the boss doesn't move much, correct timings on cooldowns etc. To try and manage all that using a PET (which is how I assume people would want it to work based on past posts) would be a nightmare, not to mention enmity control. I just cannot see how it can function effectively and have it not be either really strong and broken, or really underwhelming.

As for a melee healer, something like Nidhogg springs to mind, with his cleave. Unless you learn when every cleave happens for every fight, you will have the potential to get cleaved and wrecked, but then, that Bard at the back didn't move quick enough and now you have to travel across most of the map to heal them. Yes, you could add movement abilities, but that leaves less for other things, plus I don't think it's what people had in mind with a melee healer, practically instant teleporting across the battlefield to heal everyone, then you have AoE heals, which will basically be a massive AoE around the user etc. At this point, you might as well make them a caster, or think of a different role for dancer because I don't think a melee healer will work at all. Instead, a support role, but in melee range would probably suit it better.

My opinion on Geomancer, if you make it a healer, it becomes too much like WHM, so a tank or DPS would be more suited. Spitballing ideas, rather than have terrain influence their spells, they could align themselves with different elements, one could give abilities DoT effects, one could enhance the GEO etc. This idea isn't thought out as you can tell, but I'm not the best at making up ideas in the first place.

As a mainly tank user, I would love a new tank to play with and I think a magic tank would be a nice change of pace. The obvious one that people say is Blue Mage, mainly because they get hit with attacks and learn them (but we all know that's not how learning abilities is going to work, so in my eyes, that is irrelevant in deciding role). However, sticking with the tank idea, it still needs a weapon and personally, I thinks there is too many swords, or blades out there, so another idea of mine would be some sort of magic orb. It will essentially be a glowing ball of aether in the middle with an intricate/patterned/etc. design for a sort of 'orb case' for lack of a better word. This orb would essentially be where the BLU draws on the monsters power. An example, fire breath, an ethereal dragon head pops out and uses fire breath, Goblin Punch, you throw the orb/thrust forward with your fist whilst holding the orb and it causes the Goblin Punch effects. Using this idea, you can have alot of flexibility with BLU animations and how they look, which I would say is a good thing considering the vast aray of skills they have.

Again, I'm not the best at coming up with idea, especially not new ideas, but I do enjoy reading other job idea people have, as long as they include a general idea on how they play. Being given a list of abilities without an idea of how it all comes together just puts me off, however, if I like an idea, I am more likely to tear it apart, which is a good thing, as it means I like the idea, which also means you don't need to go into too much detail with abilities. I do very much prefer ones with a general gist of how the job functions and what it can do as opposed to potency numbers.

**Ilenya** · 06-09-2018 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mikey_R

As for a melee healer, something like Nidhogg springs to mind, with his cleave. Unless you learn when every cleave happens for every fight, you will have the potential to get cleaved and wrecked, but then, that Bard at the back didn't move quick enough and now you have to travel across most of the map to heal them. Yes, you could add movement abilities, but that leaves less for other things, plus I don't think it's what people had in mind with a melee healer, practically instant teleporting across the battlefield to heal everyone, then you have AoE heals, which will basically be a massive AoE around the user etc.

I think you are misunderstanding the idea of "melee healer"

The idea was for a healer who works in melee range, doing damage that way, but still having your standard range for your primary (Cure style) heals.

**KisaiTenshi** · 06-09-2018 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ilenya

I think you are misunderstanding the idea of "melee healer"

The idea was for a healer who works in melee range, doing damage that way, but still having your standard range for your primary (Cure style) heals.

A Melee healer is traditionally what the Cleric (priest) is in D&D style systems. They wield maces. If you want to get into it, the RPG Cleric is actually one of the few D&D things not directly based on Tolkien, but rather the kind of demon/vampire hunter (think a much earlier interpretation of Van Helsing.) To avoid confusion with the Paladin (who is a holy knight, or crusader.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleric...ns_%26_Dragons)

Reluctant to shed blood, clerics are limited to blunt, bludgeoning weapons unless allowed other weapons by their dogma/mythos. Being trained for battle as well as spiritual works, they may use any armor or shield.

The thing is, taken at face value the "white mage" is the Cleric in FF, and had FFXIV not turned the Conjurer into one, the Conjurer would have became the Geomancer, and the Thaumaturge (which is the actual "Priest" in this game) would have had White Mage or Black Mage or Red Mage as evolution points. These decisions were made during 1.x and are thus impossible to go back in time and change.

Suffice it to say, I think we're seeing the consequences of making those changes in 1.x contradict the lore now. Because in 1.x the only gear that was class locked was the main hand gear. That I recall. The correct lore for the WHM would not have the WHM being able to cast any destructive magic other than Holy, and Holy would only work on undead, vampires. But there's also no traditional "power of god compels thee" type of aspect to FFXIV's classes since "we" are the ones being compelled by Hydaelyn already. It's right there in the name "Warrior of Light"

**Ilenya** · 06-09-2018 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

A Melee healer is traditionally what the Cleric (priest) is in D&D style systems. They wield maces. If you want to get into it, the RPG Cleric is actually one of the few D&D things not directly based on Tolkien, but rather the kind of demon/vampire hunter (think a much earlier interpretation of Van Helsing.) To avoid confusion with the Paladin (who is a holy knight, or crusader.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleric...ns_%26_Dragons)

Unless my knowledge of D&D is more lacking than I thought, Clerics can heal at range, yes? No need to be running around except for your most powerful heals that are touch only.

**KisaiTenshi** · 06-09-2018 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Unless my knowledge of D&D is more lacking than I thought, Clerics can heal at range, yes? No need to be running around except for your most powerful heals that are touch only.

Clerics in a traditional sense use prayers. Those prayers come in a variety of things, and alignment matters in some of those games (eg turning or destroying undead is something only lawful clerics can do, while chaotic ones can not.) The light cure and serious cure requires touch. In other games an evil cleric can only inflict wounds, not cure them, but they may also be able to command undead. 5th edition Clerics are still touch based for those basic cures, but the "regen" healing word and Heal (eq Esuna) can be casted at distance, and are high level and expensive. A mass heal is also distance, high level and expensive.

There's also systems like d20 that use the same names for spells but different rules.

FFXIV's White Mage is derived from those same early CRPG versions of Cleric/Priest which in turn were based on pre-AD&D or early D&D content. The thing that would throw a huge monkey wrench into into how White Mage works is if they actually had to invoke their Deity of the twelve that you selected at character creation.

**Mikey_R** · 06-10-2018 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ilenya

I think you are misunderstanding the idea of "melee healer"

The idea was for a healer who works in melee range, doing damage that way, but still having your standard range for your primary (Cure style) heals.

It seems I did misunderstand. However, I don't see the appeal. Assuming it has about 3-4 single damaging attacks, like the other healers, you either have a DoT and a short combo, or you can use them without combos, each adding a debuff and maybe one pure damage for filler. I wouldn't expect to add positionals as that is another thing to juggle whilst healing. However, it might appeal to some, so I'm not going to deny them that possibility just because I don't see the appeal.

Originally Posted by Kazrah

And some final food for thought: if Dark Knight was requested as a DPS and released as a tank, and Samurai requested as a tank and released as a DPS, what makes you think Dancer would be a healer when it could just as easily be a melee DPS in Scouting gear?

They don't need another Melee DPS :P

**Brightshadow** · 06-09-2018 04:16 AM

I kinda of want a Chemist healer, but hey! I also love Dancer:

Oh but please, pretty please make this how they mix if we get Chemist, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRd-Xg0e2oc

**Melichoir** · 06-09-2018 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ralts

Tank: Blue Mage
Weapon: Falchion and Shield

Healer: Geomancer
Weapon: Bell
Type: Shielder like Scholar using White-Mage-esque spells.

Damage-Dealer: Dancer
Type: Melee range supporter using debuffs to enemies rather than buffs to the group like bards.

Blue mage should have a Flail/Morning Star/Mace of some kind as a primary weapon, then an off hand that generates a 'magic shield' just for a bit of flare and difference compared to Paladin. Could use a mechanic that the shield happens in Tank Stance, but in Offense Stance the shield changes to something else (a second mace making it duel wielding? Dunno)

As for the chemist suggestion: Make it use MP to 'create' the heals (potions) that can be stored and deployed as seen fit. So a 3 second cast time to create a potion using MP, but then it is deployed as an OGCD with either an incredibly low or no CD. That or the potion type has a Cooldown built in. Small healing potion = small CD, larger ones = larger CDs. You could stockpile a few at once and then 'burst' heal but deploying them rapidly between casts, though you can only stockpile so many at a time. Could also be a class that restores TP/MP to allies as well.

**Kazrah** · 06-09-2018 06:23 AM

So let me try to fit in the title of realistic jobs we might get. For starters, it'd be astounding if we didn't get a tank and healer not because we need more tanks and healers (an argument which will go on until the end of MMORPGs), but because we could use more tank and healer options to keep tank and healer players enticed into continuing with those roles in addition to whatever sliver of players switch from DPS.

For the next healer, I see three possibilities. Dancer might come up simply due to player demand along with Yoshi saying no on it for Stormblood because he wanted it "just right". Chemist is another high-demand job added onto its potential lore tie-in to the famed alchemists of Thavnair, but a potential for weaponization or other means of delivering their goods at a distance means that it'd probably be incorporated into a different job. Lastly, Oracle was a job brought up by Yoshi during a couple of interviews as what could've been the third job for Stormblood, meaning there might be some resources for it leftover. Although it might not look it, all three of these jobs could get away with wearing Mending gear, especially if you think about seeing Red Mage in a robe and realizing that it's almost as visually nonsensical. All three of these jobs would have to use MP as a prime resource just because it's much easier to balance. Lastly, it would need a completely new main healing system (WHM uses hots, SCH has bubbles, AST has either/or), which would probably be the biggest obstacle for a new healer.

Due to the changes Stormblood made to tank gear and unless those changes get reverted in 5.0, the next tank will HAVE to be another tin can tank in Fending gear. Itemization has unfortunately limited more entertaining possibilities for tanks, but what this does mean is that the next tank would likely follow a dream of Yoshi of having jobs exclusive to FFXIV. Sure, we could see some possible elements from other jobs such as Blue Mage or some other job not traditionally identified as a tank incorporated it, but this next tank would most likely be something entirely new.

**Mahrze** · 06-09-2018 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Kazrah

Due to the changes Stormblood made to tank gear and unless those changes get reverted in 5.0, the next tank will HAVE to be another tin can tank in Fending gear. Itemization has unfortunately limited more entertaining possibilities for tanks, but what this does mean is that the next tank would likely follow a dream of Yoshi of having jobs exclusive to FFXIV. Sure, we could see some possible elements from other jobs such as Blue Mage or some other job not traditionally identified as a tank incorporated it, but this next tank would most likely be something entirely new.

This is kinda moot since AF gear rarely bends to the fending archetype. PLD's 4.0 AF gear is not a tin can nor is WAR's (I'd say DRK too but that one is debatable) So AF and maybe dungeon gear can break said pattern.

I'd contest Chemist and Oracle since the dev team usually bends to requests and Dancer, Blue Mage and something with a Gunblade are the most common things they have seen and likely still see in the lead up to 5.0. Enough people are betting Alphi will have an Alisaie moment in the 4.0 story too.

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