Limit Break Caster or DPS First or Last Boss

[Liam_Harper]

If you're doing a regular pug Primal or 8 man raid, do you guys hold the limit break or use it immediately?

I notice on something like Kefka or Byakko normal, occasionally lb3 is up fairly early and using it on the spot would give you an additional lb1 or lb2 near the end. But the few times I do pop it off the bat thinking "Going smooth so far, should be grand on Normal" the group suddenly falls apart out of nowhere, stand in something and nearly all die and a healer lb3 probably would have saved a wipe. Better to play safe?

[CaptainLagbeard]

Each LB has it's uses, but the two most commonly used ones are the Melee and Healer LB...

Using the LB against mobs is generally a waste in my opinion, it doesn't kill them in one hit, and if the party is worried about surviving a giant pull with the use of an LB, tank LB might do a better job, keeps the mobs from doing too much damage for a while...

In dungeons you can usually get away with LBing the first boss if it's up by then, as it'll be up again by the final boss most certainly.
In 8 mans (raids and trials), you technically can use the LB as soon as it's ready, unless there's a DPS check mechanic... But you should probably keep it around in case someone fucks up and healers need it.


Tank LB is either a mechanic, or if people fail at certain mechanics and the party is about to be oneshotted.

[Canadane]

Using the LB against mobs is generally a waste in my opinion, it doesn't kill them in one hit, and if the party is worried about surviving a giant pull with the use of an LB, tank LB might do a better job, keeps the mobs from doing too much damage for a while...

Killing them faster with a ranged LB will keep them from doing more damage than letting them live with a tank LB preventing some damage over time.
It's he same reason dps is priority for all classes in the games meta as it is. You simply prevent damage by killing them faster.

[Maeka]

Killing them faster with a ranged LB will keep them from doing more damage than letting them live with a tank LB preventing some damage over time.
It's he same reason dps is priority for all classes in the games meta as it is. You simply prevent damage by killing them faster.

That's only when you intentionally (and unnecessarily!) create more of a problem for yourself/your group by overpulling/multipulling, though. Yeah, you get things done faster if you pull multiple groups, but then if you burn an LB on a group of mobs, what happens if somebody screws up on the boss, you wipe at 10-15% and realize that LB2 could have finished him off if you had just saved it instead of burning it on a group of mobs right outside the boss's door? The time you saved by LBing the trash and overpulling is suddenly wasted by a wipe and rez and re-fighting the boss again.

*shrug*

I think using LB on Trash is just reckless and not needed.

[kikix12]

That's only when you intentionally (and unnecessarily!) create more of a problem for yourself/your group by overpulling/multipulling, though. Yeah, you get things done faster if you pull multiple groups, but then if you burn an LB on a group of mobs, what happens if somebody screws up on the boss, you wipe at 10-15% and realize that LB2 could have finished him off if you had just saved it instead of burning it on a group of mobs right outside the boss's door? The time you saved by LBing the trash and overpulling is suddenly wasted by a wipe and rez and re-fighting the boss again.

Wrong on every account. First, multi-pulling speeds up the dungeon run so much that a single wipe on a boss will NOT make the time wasted. Indeed. Even with a wipe you will finish the run faster than if you pulled only one group at a time. And that's even when you're not using limit break on trash mobs.

Second, a boss in dungeon is dealt about 10% damage with the limit break. It clearly varies from party to party and dungeon to dungeon, but that's a safe estimate of "average". Then it takes about 3% of its life from the moment of the limit break being selected to it actually dealing damage. If you are in a pinch...you will most likely NOT get it off. Either you will be killed by that AoE that you don't want to hit or the other mechanic will eat you up. Using DPS limit break to save a run is not only very unreliable but often plain impossible. And, on top of that, it's not even speeding the dungeon up by any significant deal. With dungeons, only limit break 2 can be used on bosses (and even that won't often charge on the bosses or will past a point where it's actually useful). That's not a whole deal of damage in comparison, so it's not as significant as it is in trials or raids. And if the DPS that uses it is actually the one with better gear, the other one being poorly equipped...the difference grows ever smaller.

What a limit break on boss does is make it a bit easier. One or two skills from a boss maybe. Only in few it can make a difference (like the Wing phases of some bosses mentioned before by someone), but that's due to mechanics of that fight for which party would keep the limit break anyway (if they know what they are doing).

I think using LB on Trash is just reckless and not needed.

When majority of dungeons go past without limit break being used ONCE, how can using it efficiently be reckless?! And it's not needed because limit break is not needed. None of it. Not even at the end of a boss. The game is not balanced with limit break in mind AT ALL. You can see that in every content. You can finish every content without using limit break even once. At the same time, there are fights where using limit break correctly can make their hardest phases into a joke. That's why using it for efficiency is the best way to use it...in dungeons. In trials/raids it's best kept for healers as the ultimate panic button, where the time at stake and the likelihood of it being needed get higher (though even this have exceptions...since statics with high-level players won't really need that panic button more than once even several dozen runs).

[Maeka]

Wrong on every account. First, multi-pulling speeds up the dungeon run so much that a single wipe on a boss will NOT make the time wasted. Indeed. Even with a wipe you will finish the run faster than if you pulled only one group at a time. And that's even when you're not using limit break on trash mobs.

Wipes are always unpleasant and leave a sour taste in one's mouth, though.

Technically it might be faster, or maybe not. Depends on the group and their DPS, and what jobs you actually got.

Second, a boss in dungeon is dealt about 10% damage with the limit break. It clearly varies from party to party and dungeon to dungeon, but that's a safe estimate of "average". Then it takes about 3% of its life from the moment of the limit break being selected to it actually dealing damage. If you are in a pinch...you will most likely NOT get it off. Either you will be killed by that AoE that you don't want to hit or the other mechanic will eat you up. Using DPS limit break to save a run is not only very unreliable but often plain impossible. And, on top of that, it's not even speeding the dungeon up by any significant deal. With dungeons, only limit break 2 can be used on bosses (and even that won't often charge on the bosses or will past a point where it's actually useful). That's not a whole deal of damage in comparison, so it's not as significant as it is in trials or raids. And if the DPS that uses it is actually the one with better gear, the other one being poorly equipped...the difference grows ever smaller.

First, you don't need to wait until the last 15% to use your limit break (which is the very thing I said you shouldn't be doing anyways, unless you really have nothing else to use it on).

When you use a DPS LB on a boss, you are likely doing it to skip a phase (Tioman's Wings, Charibert's Holy Fires, etc). It won't straight up save you (although I HAVE seen situations in which we get a boss down to 10% and one DPS dies, healer and tank are half dead, and the one DPS finally decides to end it with a LB, but this is much less often than the usual) and/or make the fight easier to survive.

Like Aurum Vale. Mage LB on all the seeds and sproutlings makes the healer's job MUCH easier than doing it without. You could potentially avoid a bad situation in which you don't kill the seeds fast enough and you got a few sproutlings on you, and it just goes south from there. Maybe even a wipe, if the healer can't keep up with it.

But if you had used that Mage LB on the seeds... then there wouldn't BE any sproutlings and the healer wouldn't be as taxed.

What a limit break on boss does is make it a bit easier. One or two skills from a boss maybe. Only in few it can make a difference (like the Wing phases of some bosses mentioned before by someone), but that's due to mechanics of that fight for which party would keep the limit break anyway (if they know what they are doing).

That someone was me, btw.

And eh. I've never seen a mage LB Tioman's Wings except me, lol.

Randoms rarely consider stuff like that.

When majority of dungeons go past without limit break being used ONCE, how can using it efficiently be reckless?! And it's not needed because limit break is not needed. None of it. Not even at the end of a boss. The game is not balanced with limit break in mind AT ALL. You can see that in every content. You can finish every content without using limit break even once. At the same time, there are fights where using limit break correctly can make their hardest phases into a joke. That's why using it for efficiency is the best way to use it...in dungeons. In trials/raids it's best kept for healers as the ultimate panic button, where the time at stake and the likelihood of it being needed get higher (though even this have exceptions...since statics with high-level players won't really need that panic button more than once even several dozen runs).

It's reckless to burn something you might end up needing later? *shrug* You don't know what might happen. Somebody might DC right near the end of the fight. What if your healer's router decides to quit in the middle of the last boss fight? Or what if they start lagging or something, or they do something stupid and get killed? You got a boss with 10% staring you in the face, a dead DPS, a live DPS, and a Tank who's, say, half HP or so.

"Gee, I wish we had our LB about now....."

EDIT: Now, I get that not using it during the entire run is somewhat wasteful, but then again, without a time machine or clairvoyancy, you're not going to know ahead of time if you're going to need it. One of my favorite quotes from Alien vs Predator:

It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[Alaray]

LB's not really something worth stressing over IMO, in normal dungeons/content. In 24mans it's just better to hold it for healers half the time, since people just die in them left and right. The other half of the time it's a cool animation you can watch as you eventually hit the boss pretty hard. (or, if you're me, you tank LB3 when everyone's dead 'cuz it looks cool).

Most people I run into will use it sub 2 percent of a Boss's HP anyway, and at that point it's not even worth it. May as well blow it on a massive pull and have a bit of fun.

Or run up to a maidservant, stun it, then LB1 it in the face. Best leveling feeling I ever had.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Use it while a boss is prepping an attack that requires running, so half of the party is blinded by bright flashes and explosions and runs off the edge of the arena.

I admit nothing.

[Nabril]

So, in this thread alone, the opinions are to have the caster cast LB during trash pulls, have the melee do it during the first and last boss, cast it only during the last boss, use it to drop add phases on the last boss, use it during the opening, use it at 15%, or save it for the Healer!

I'm glad that all my confusion has been cleared up in this thread

Use it while a boss is prepping an attack that requires running, so half of the party is blinded by bright flashes and explosions and runs off the edge of the arena.

I admit nothing.

I think that this so far is the best advice I've seen on the subject

[Bahd_Monkey]

So, in this thread alone, the opinions are to have the caster cast LB during trash pulls, have the melee do it during the first and last boss, cast it only during the last boss, use it to drop add phases on the last boss, use it during the opening, use it at 15%, or save it for the Healer!

Exactly, who and when to use a LB depends on the content and the party.