Lack of content on patch release

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Rogue-like dungeon crawler content, like Palace of the Dead
The new one should be coming soon

....

Indeed, that is another example of a type of self sustaining content.

I used PvP as the example because it's easier to state how facing off against other people provides varied experiences.

[Nezerius]

Yes, Ultimate is not tied to anything, but the point is those ppl asked for beign able to enjoy the rest of the content patch before having to do world prog and while this group of players are small they had contact with the dev team. Since ultimate so far has only been released 2 weeks after patch launch I'm safe to assume that their voice was heard

I didn't say to rush to do world first races...
But to rush due to those races.

People who won't, or can't, participate in those directly may still want to participate indirectly via streams and such.
And the gap gives them time to get stuff done and prepare for those events.

And if the both of you actually read my initial post, you'd have known that it doesn't really change the player's choice much, since it's just a very small minority that would actually have to choose between doing casual content, or jumping into the world first race.

You'd also know that I linked it to a better content spread, having HoH in 4.31, and Pagos in 4.35 (although I suppose Ultima could've still been in 4.31 along with HoH).

You guys make it sound like having to choose between what to do first is some kind of inhumane thing to ask of the player base. News flash: casual content will still be there for the hardcore raiders to do, after they have had their 2 weeks of progression.

[MageBlack]

And if the both of you actually read my initial post, you'd have known that it doesn't really change the player's choice much, since it's just a very small minority that would actually have to choose between doing casual content, or jumping into the world first race.

You'd also know that I linked it to a better content spread, having HoH in 4.31, and Pagos in 4.35 (although I suppose Ultima could've still been in 4.31 along with HoH).

You guys make it sound like having to choose between what to do first is some kind of inhumane thing to ask of the player base. News flash: casual content will still be there for the hardcore raiders to do, after they have had their 2 weeks of progression.

They want an MMO on rails with whack-a-mole mechanics.

[Remedi]

The only shared mindest was "what should happen? we can still finish it with patches after the release".
Many standard features, which everyone would expect to be in a released MMO, where not present. Like a search system in the market ward. And no boss fights (not instanced and not in the open world). From level 1 to level 50 and at the "endgame" the contents were Leves and Behest. Only 3 or 4 months after the release the first handfull bosses were added as Leve NMs.

To be fair much of my statement was said without a cool mind, that said Koji fox did said in the documentary that they also thought that what once worked with FFXI would work with FFXIV 1.0, but they didn't thought about the change of mentality of players in the years.
Also to be fair I think we have been a bit too much lenient on release content for 2.0, a game releasing nowadays with the amount of content 2.0 launched would not work well by today's standards, Imho much of 2.1 content was content that should've been released with 2.0, that kinda created an illusion of what patches would have

@Nezerius I don't agree that ultimate is to be considered world first race only content, it's hardcore content uet, but I believe anyone should give it a shot, it's the end goal of PVE and as such it should be respected

Also I'll repeat it again I agree that it's not a good idea of this staggered release, I too want to have a choice of what to do and don't like having rails

[Larsille]

if anyone thinks this game has no content you either A: have no life and enough money to play all day B: youre a student who only plays FFXIV all day or C: he/she is lying.

[MageBlack]

if anyone thinks this game has no content you either A: have no life and enough money to play all day B: youre a student who only plays FFXIV all day or C: he/she is lying.

or D: Have no clue what this thread is about

[Hestzhyen]

if anyone thinks this game has no content you either A: have no life and enough money to play all day B: youre a student who only plays FFXIV all day or C: he/she is lying.

Or I have been playing for over four years and, even with my limited playtime nowadays, find the new content is more of the same that I've seen since ARR 2.0 and has no long-lasting value...

[Alleo]

if anyone thinks this game has no content you either A: have no life and enough money to play all day B: youre a student who only plays FFXIV all day or C: he/she is lying.

Oh I do have things to do. I mean I recently needed to farm 1.3k coke for certain crafts and before that I gathered thousands of other mats because I wanted to craft certain items. But if we use the argument that there are x achievements you can do and you can only complain if you have done it all...well they would ever only need to release that one expansion every few years and be done with it. Quite sure that most people would hate that.

Its about new content which is normally provided with a patch and the OP has the problem that they are done with what the patch offered to them and now we all need to wait for true new content for another few weeks or months.

[Remedi]

It was not the "ffxi's mindset" that made 1.0 not work. It was the incompetence of the developers in charge of the project. So many things were wrong with this mess of a MMO, that one can wonder how this could come up from a firm that have a 10+ years old successful MMO for experience.




Even WoW, that was well known for its vertical progression, did put some horizontale one with Legion. Plus, the developers from S.E. should take risks nonetheless because sometimes "the market" doesn't even know what it want.

1) watch the documentary about 1.0, they firmly explain that they used the same mindset they used when creating FFXI for 1.0 and Koji-Fox says that the devs didn't realize that time changed and that experience was no longer valid, because they did not look to the market of that time (i.e. never played any MMOs)

2) What you mean by horizzontal progression in Legion? Do you talk about legendaries? Nobody likes the system because they are mandatory, they are recognized by the devs as a failure and as such are beign removed for the next expansion also your choice on them in mostly fixed there are rarely moments were an underused legendary is ever usfeul. The extra budget trinkets and gear? devs considered them an error and nerfed/made obscenely OP raid trinkets.
The new relic system? Hardly loved by anyone since the RNG is a big factor, but that is becoming useless next expansion too.

Azerite armor in BFA are of the same type, the power I've seen in them are pretty minor and I'm sure that raid Azerite gear will have tier set level procs as such you'll be funnelled more towards that.

Problem is that both FFXIV and WoW are not built around an horizzontal progression. The combat is simply too much dps focused in both games and that is a killer for horizzontal progression and I think ppl would want a meaningful horizzontal progression not a half assed one am I right?

[Asiragan]

1) watch the documentary about 1.0, they firmly explain that they used the same mindset they used when creating FFXI for 1.0 and Koji-Fox says that the devs didn't realize that time changed and that experience was no longer valid, because they did not look to the market of that time (i.e. never played any MMOs)

Read again. You can make a game with the mindset of the best game ever, if the development team got no clue about whatever they are doing the game would still be shitty. And the 1.0 team had absolutly no idea about whatever they were doing. Koji-Fox can say that experience doesn't hold anything if he want, but the fact is that it's not outdated mechanics that made 1.0 fail, but pure game design failure that even MMO from 20 years ago wouldn't have made.

Most players from FFXI who came into 1.0 took a long look at it, laughed (or cried) and just turned their back to the game.

What you mean by horizzontal progression in Legion? Do you talk about legendaries?

No, my point wasn't to say that WoW is better than FFXIV. I hate how they implemented this too. But the fact is that even them knew they needed horizontal progression and sooner or later FFXIV will need some too.

And let's be honest, Blizzard were always really bad at balancing their game. Whether it's item or skills/spell they always seems to balance everything like they have no clue. And that point doesn't seems to have changed with the last expansion.

Still, one of the most appreciated feature of Legion was Mythic dungeons. And without horizontal progression it would probably be dead on arrival, like most of FFXIV content released these past years. No, I do no want a half assed one, but this game need change to it. If not, 5.0 will just be a reskin of Stormblood. Which is a reskin of Heavensward.


Then again, if I wanted WoW progression I would just go and play WoW...