Trying to understand the complaints about DRK

[Insanecell]

Properly evaluated is not the phrase I would use here. I would instead use heavy handed. I also don’t understand where people get this idea that DRK flowed perfectly together in Heavensward either, but the issue is that dysfunction was traded for monotony. The rotation is boring without a third combo, why was this removed in the first place? Why does Syphon Strike have a DA effect, its unneeded and mucks up double weaving. Having an entire combo with no DA effects on it is what made double weaving the non-RNG effects manageable with a 10% haste increase. Now with those RNG effects gone and actual DA effects on all of the ogcds aside from Salted, now is the time to bring that third combo back and the MP drain. There is no reason as to why DP is not a single target increase like it was back in HW and instead be this situational. Just half the mp cost and call it a day. Bringing back certain old effects and number balance is a lot simpler than having to wait for an entire rework that is not needed.

Theres nothing complex about this, just bring back the mp drain, a third combo that ONLY has more potency than Soul Eater, half the mp cost on DP, and get rid of the DA and Grit effect on SS, make BP generate mp again but leave it locked behind Grit. I would also like to see Soul Eater heal outside of Grit in the same way Storm’s Path does, but I think the class’ defensives are fine as is, I’d say stick it behind a DA effect if anything.

Also as aside, you comboed DADD and DADP in dungeons for max lolrespect and never used them unless when the unholy BP and DAAD combo was on cd. DD was just filler on bosses and was only really good in dungeons. BP was used more for ignoring cds and tank strance outright and just spamming DAAD out of grit, which was a problem unto itself. Or you just used it along with blood weapon while main tanking bosses for DA uses, which was never really an issue. Also DRK being taken over a PLD was down to the simple fact that PLD was more dysfunctional than DRK and WAR had 100% uptime on 10% dmg /INT down and both brought the dps.

[Hierro]

snip

We don't need DP to be half the cost it currently is. As it stands, it's fine. See, DP worked as it was in HW not because it was a dps gain over DA, but because it was mana efficient. The name of the game back in HW was to keep from bottoming out, while maintaining respectable dps. because DP wasn't far off from DA in potency, it was worth using because doing so meant prolonging hitting 0 mp. But today, that issue is irrelevant when the concern has now shifted to keep from overflowing. It wouldn't serve us to have a weaker DA substitute on a 1 minute cooldown. What it does do, however, is now become a reliable method of snap aggro on adds, and since it's not meant to be used on cooldown, it can be used as needed, and that sort of convenience is just what makes good design.

[Insanecell]

Apologies for the late response. DP worked in HW because it was not only a ST dps gain, it was mana efficient, it was 150 potency for half the cost of a DA without having to DA it. Now it has been rendered situational due to the fact it costs the same as a DA but does not have the same potency gain as a DA, which is a massive downgrade, but then again, I see DRK as a whole right now as a massive downgrade.

So I don’t find myself agreeing with this being called good design, because the problem is that current raid tiers and ability make up do not support its current playstyle. The only boss that does is Guardian since it’s the only fight with consistent add uptime throughout the fight. Or you could use it if no classes that bring slashing are in your group. So even if the current form of the ability has good design due to its multiple uses, there is no foundational support for it in the content that matters so it gets side lined as a situational ability, which I thought was the point of the ability pruning in the first place. So in current gameplay, I think removing Slashing would work better than halving its mp cost. That way it does have all of the utility you describe and it gains some in the sense that you can just pop it to see a different animation on a fight that has no adds or to prevent your self from overflowing on mp.

Now in my argument, I wanted DRK to just flat out go back to HW with mp management. I would argue that not wanting to overflow and not wanting to bottom out on mp was way more engaging, and DP fit alot better back then. But that was then and this is now, and I don't think Square has any plans to go back to the old way of mp management.

[Derio]

Imo 3.x DRK was the perfect pace

[Insanecell]

The current pace isnt that much different. Its just that the dps rotation is dull.

[Shurrikhan]

Apologies for the late response. DP worked in HW because it was not only a ST dps gain, it was mana efficient, it was 150 potency for half the cost of a DA without having to DA it. Now it has been rendered situational due to the fact it costs the same as a DA but does not have the same potency gain as a DA.

What? It's identical potency for identical cost, but also has an enmity modifier (which therefore amounts to higher relative value when MTing). It's one of the best rotational spender uses for DA... CnS, DP, and Plunge should all be DA'd, and if ever PS is used, it should also be DA'ed. Quietus at 3+ targets should be DAed. The only lackluster ones are actually SS, SE, and BS.

[Kabooa]

What? It's identical potency for identical cost, but also has an enmity modifier (which therefore amounts to higher relative value when MTing). It's one of the best rotational spender uses for DA... CnS, DP, and Plunge should all be DA'd, and if ever PS is used, it should also be DA'ed. Quietus at 3+ targets should be DAed. The only lackluster ones are actually SS, SE, and BS.

It's magic, so doesn't get the slashing bonus.

CNS is the only requirement. Plunge is priority if you're the target. DP on two targets or more. Otherwise DA dump in SS/SE. DA Quietus is to prevent overcapping mostly.

[Wilbow]

What? It's identical potency for identical cost, but also has an enmity modifier (which therefore amounts to higher relative value when MTing). It's one of the best rotational spender uses for DA... CnS, DP, and Plunge should all be DA'd, and if ever PS is used, it should also be DA'ed. Quietus at 3+ targets should be DAed. The only lackluster ones are actually SS, SE, and BS.

DP does not benefit from slashing debuff, meaning its effective potency is a bit lower than any offensive use of DA. Therefore, DP use in single target is situational, depending on whether slashing debuff is available and how valuable enmity is to you.

EDIT: Damn, beaten to the punch.

[Lyth]

The fact that DA Plunge is available on half the recast and does benefit from slashing makes single target DP a questionable choice as an enmity grab. As long as 100% uptime buffs like slashing and piercing exist, jobs with hybrid damage types are going to lose out.

[Hierro]

So are we going to pretend DRK is still bad even though it achieved world first on the hardest, most relevant content AGAIN?