Trying to understand the complaints about DRK

[Zeyd]

Not my ideas, but:

DA affect GCDs only. This would help reduce double-weaving of oGCDs which some people have problems with depending on latency, and is a somewhat contradictory design considering the main effect of Blood Weapon. (oh you like double weave? How about double weave with HASTE lol)

If you have been following, we are currently talking about how to make the DA effects more impactful without breaking balance.

What you are talking about pretty much amounts to “I’m too slow to push buttons, please fix”.

[Saeno]

If you have been following, we are currently talking about how to make the DA effects more impactful without breaking balance.

What you are talking about pretty much amounts to “I’m too slow to push buttons, please fix”.

I think its pretty reasonable. Nothing he said was wrong. Blood weapon on a job that needs to double weave like hell is very counter intuitive for high ping players. DA can be more impactful while still lasting for several GCD's.

[Chrono_Rising]

I think its pretty reasonable. Nothing he said was wrong. Blood weapon on a job that needs to double weave like hell is very counter intuitive for high ping players. DA can be more impactful while still lasting for several GCD's.

Just to add on to this, having a GCD version of Dark Arts also allows freedom to do things like increase the Haste effect on Dark arts, which right now such a haste buff is probably not viable with double weaving.

As far as dark arts effects that would have meaning without potency: Mana cost reduction buff. On a third combo you could add a mana cost reduction that lasts for x duration as a dark arts effect. It's something you will want to manage and keep up when spending mana heavily and gives dark knight a small buff while giving some variation in rotation. It isn't potency, but still very desirable.

Its something you would want to have up for raid buffs or whenever you are ready to spend lots of mana, which plays into the dark knight game play, and a button you want to avoid hitting during raid buffs, since it could have 0 potency added of if you are running dry on mana. Such a buff, lowering your mana costs by x%, means it would break even in 100/x dark arts and would be a gain on any more dark arts used or combinations of dark arts and TBN. Its a flexible effect that centers around mana management, but is not necessarily a 100% uptime buff as it depends on your mana playstyle.

At the same time if you are mana floored, then this may not be a buff you want to put up immediately as you may not be able to make the most out of it.

[Kabooa]

While the changes have made Dark Knight feel and play better, it doesn't change the baseline problem that it's shallow, but that's hardly just a Dark Knight problem.

[Mycow8me]

Drks problem is a mixture of bad synergy.

It has an attack speed increase buff with forced double weaves, any future instant skills with desired affects or high damage boosts will add more forced double weaves exasperating the issue.

It has a invuln skill that requires healing but has no self healing skills, an iconic hp drain skill for drk is being used as a mage role skill collecting dust.

For the amount of effort required to perform the blood weapon, maximize gcds and proper cooldown rotation with doubleweave perfection... its not feeling rewarding in terms of dps output.

All in all, unless you enjoy the small rush from bloodweapon or the aesthetics/lore of drk, it doesnt have much going for it.

I got alot more i would say about drk but i feel like the 3 i listed are its core issues for me.

[whiskeybravo]

If you have been following, we are currently talking about how to make the DA effects more impactful without breaking balance.

What you are talking about pretty much amounts to “I’m too slow to push buttons, please fix”.

Indeed, and I considered adding the caveat that if you are the type of player that just likes mashing buttons then making it so there are less buttons to mash would be a negative change for you.

It seems you're still having a hard time with this. Let me share a piece of my past:

It's fairly obvious that SE intended to decrease tank damage output. From the locking of accessories to removal of abilities like Internal Release to the changing of the damage formula itself. The addition of a "cost" for swapping stances is being perceived as punishment, but in reality it's congruent with the additional changes they made.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4294874

This was back before they made the initial changes to WAR about beast gauge halving upon stance change. I was very adamant about defending the devs decision to make changes to reduce tank dps, and tried to convince others it was in line with their objectives. Needless to say the community at large wanted the change, and got the change, and War basically skyrocketed from there in to the most desirable tank.

So, I was once wrong about how I felt War should be changed. And in retrospect it was a pretty terrible design choice, I can't imagine having to prog NeoExdeath like with the beast gauge like that. War was undeniably better after that change and I can't believe I was trying to argue against it.

I bring this up to maybe help open your mind a little bit, most of these guys are spot on in their assessment and suggestions. Take away the DA spam, and yea it may make DRK feel a little slower but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be weaker.

[Zarkovitch]

DRK is on wierd spot right now compare to HW.SE just dont know what to do with right now except giving band aids.They lost so much good abilities on cross classes & concept got rushed as hell.so it kinda feels of half baked job.

SE fix will them or pay more attention on them on next expansion. PLD is living proof got turd to omg so good. HW to SB

[Marxam]

Yeah but that was in part due to SE final capitalizing on what a Paladin is supposed to be in a party. It's a tank that protects everybody and keeps the party safe with it's shield and moves like PoA, Clemency and Divine Veil are a few of its tools that reinforce that feeling of being a "holy stalwart knight". The same could be said for WAR, where the idea of going berserk and releasing your "inner beast" is heavily capitalized on since 3.0 where it achieved god tier. DRK has an identity crisis and that's it. Its tool kit is actually pretty good with my main gripes revolving around TBN and the lack of a 3rd combo tree. DRK just feels like a wannabe WAR with less impressive attack and defensive cooldowns.

[Hierro]

DRK is on wierd spot right now compare to HW.

Don't pretend DRK wasn't in a weird spot back in HW. Dark Dance was a joke of a cooldown, and losing it in exchanged for a GUARANTEED reprisal is a generous trade.

DRK had issues with synergy. DADD did not mix with blood price, which was more crucial back then seeing as you needed to use it regardless of stance, and the same could be said of DADP.

That said, after removing the rose-tinted glasses you have an image of a job that's been properly re-evaluated after addressing the issues that made it a fixed slot in parties, and also addresses the issues of inflexible mitigation thanks to TBN.

Any day, SB DRK over HW DRK.

[whiteblade89]

DRK had issues with synergy. DADD did not mix with blood price, which was more crucial back then seeing as you needed to use it regardless of stance, and the same could be said of DADP.

You're right in that DADD and DADP had no synergy with BP in HW, but you're forgetting (or just don't realize) that they had synergy with each other and were best used at the end of the BP window as opposed to during it. This is what people are complaining about when they say that drk is not rewarding anymore. Back in HW you really had to understand your toolkit on a deeper level to attain satisfying results. But once you did, you felt like a freaking god. People were spouting that same synergy issue back in HW and it really makes me think that some people just didn't understand how and when these CD's were supposed to be used. I'm not saying that HW didnt have problems, but DADD and DADP were not part of said problems. The RNG aspect of reprisal was weird, I'll be honest. But if anything the weird part was gating the debuff behind an RNG skill, not necessarily the skill itself.
And I'm sorry, but I will disagree on the "proper re-evaluation" bit. All we have now is a job with a monotonous rotation and an identity that has been properly gutted more than anything. If you like SB drk, more power to you. Personally, spamming the same combo over and over again isn't what I would call rewarding. In fact, OP mentioned something about drk's having "choice" nowadays? I'm truly interested in what these "choices" are, because I have yet to find any measure of "choice" in the current drk rotation.